No one has posted any detailed info of this type before now . Please add more as your time permits . Glad you found these papers . It does give us some idea how & when the CG63 came into production .

Thank you .

swede

 

As usual, arilar, very well done. I enjoy reading your posts every time and always come away with some new found knowledge of Swedish Mausers and FSR.

Keep up the great work!!

metzgeri

 

And in 7.62 x 51?

A great post with all new information.

I have always wondered about evolution of the 7.62 x 51 versions of the M63 rifle. Reynolds and Fulton's 1972 book Target Rifle Shooting references the M63 fitted with parker Hale sights was trialled for adoption on the UK when they were crossing over from the 303 Br to the 7.62 x 51 cartridge. It doesn't give a date but it would have been about 1968 when the changover occurred.

Interesting too that the original M96 action was perfectly OK for this cartridge.

 

CG 63 for U.K.!

A great post with all new information.

I have always wondered about evolution of the 7.62 x 51 versions of the M63 rifle. Reynolds and Fulton's 1972 book Target Rifle Shooting references the M63 fitted with parker Hale sights was trialled for adoption on the UK when they were crossing over from the 303 Br to the 7.62 x 51 cartridge. It doesn't give a date but it would have been about 1968 when the changover occurred.

Interesting too that the original M96 action was perfectly OK for this cartridge.

Hi SwedeM63!
I have posted this before but maybe on "Old Gunboard". Do you refer to military try-outs or civilian ones? I have been told that FFV was not all happy with Parker Hales efforts to market the CG 63 7,62 Nato-version as target rifle. As you can see is this news-letter from "late" July 1968.
BTW. Interesting info is that by this time 16000 (guess both all-new and conversions counted) of CG 63s hade been made!! Remember, production started 1964 with first 50 ready in May same year.........I am counting........about 300 each month if production all year around. Guess demand was at top in Sweden the first years when 600 could be made each month.

Regards,
ARILAR

 

Most excellent, keep it coming!

Dutchman

 

Great stuff Arilar!!

Much appreciated from the target rifle aficionados!! Thanks!! Dan

 

It is some great info! I think that it was universally accepted that the primary difference between the two models was just the provisions for the cleaning rod. Now that there is a comparative photo of both stocks and the differences pointed out, you can see they are really different from each other.

 

Sorry if I have been unclear. CG63 is a "civilian" model for FSR. M/6 is the military version with cutout for disc, cleaningrod and GF diopter as only differences (well...GF diopter of course can be used on the FSR CG 63). What I have shown as "type 1" is the first FSR approved CG 63 (used as try-out rifle during summer 1963 and shown in left and right version on the pic with the couple above) that wasnt accepted by the army and never got into production for FSR neither. Type 2 of CG 63 was the CG 63 that came into production and was "model" for the army m/6. Hope this can make more sense.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Thanks for all these informations!
Can anyone post some good pictures of the M/6 military model? I always hear talking about it but actually I've never seen one. All the CG63 I've seen until now, the one I own included, are civilian version I think.
Best regards.

 

CG 63, info the year 1965.

Above is the info directly from FFV 1965. Describes what differs between m/96 and CG 63. Tells among other things that the barrel is conical and now 19 mm diameter instead of 17,5 mm before (therefore more heavy compared to m/96 barrel). Slower twist (220 mm instead of 200). Total lenght the same. Walnut stock and free-floating barrel. Receiver to be "glossy" or black-oxided and much more. This is the CG 63 that could be ordered from Gevärsfaktoriet if a new CG 63 was wanted. Conversion from m/96 sent in by FSRshooters could be done both at Gevärsfaktoriet and Norma at this time.

This document from FFV are dated october 1965. Tells that production of CG 63 started April 1964 and in end of May 1964 was the first 50 rifles CG 63 delivered. The numbers of rifles each month has then been raised and since May 1965 kept around 600 rifles (I guess for each month. In the numbers it seems both new made and conversion are included). A special document had to be used and filled in for order of a CG 63 (will show that in a later post). Estimated time from order of a new CG 63 was 6 weeks and for conversions 6-8 weeks (from time the rifle arrived to Åmotsfors or Eskilstuna). News: Buttplate in "hard rubber" now able to get. A "field-competent" diopter under construction. Not to be ready before before shooting-season 1966 (this was the GF-diopter that wasnt ready. A disappointment of course for FFV that instead had to offer Söderin or Elit. If you sent in a Hauge, Hooka or Lyman it could be mounted as well. So what is written in "Crown Jewels" about diopters in the beginning for CG 63 differs from the how it actually was). Note that pics shows CG 63 with Elit-diopter.

Regards,
ARILAR

 

Arilar,
Im just generally confused today. I knew about the disc, cleaning rod, and the specific sights. I guess I was thinking something weird before I replied and it got all jumbled up.

 

...Im just generally confused today...

Well, if you'd get that antiquated gas mask off your face....you're oxygen deprived man!!

metzgeri

 

"A requirement was of course that the CG 63 also was approved as an army-model."

Were the 22 cal versions also approved as a army model?

 

Interesting question but I dont know. Hopefully someone else (Anders?) has the answer.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Orderform used 1965!

Here we go.....this document was required when getting your CG 63 of any kind.

This is upper part and I will try to translate parts of it.

Nedanstående utförande beställes (following model is ordered)
Nyanskaffning av Skyttegevär (new acquisition of shooting-rifle)
Ändring av insänt gevär m/96; byte av stock och pipa samt översyn (alteration of sent rifle m/96; replacement of stock, barrel and overhaul)
byte av enbart stock samt översyn (replacement of only stock and overhaul)
Nedanstående tillägg beställes (following additions are ordered)
Inköp och montering av (purchase and mounting of)
med (with)
särskild för sig insänt (specially by itself sent) "meaning that you already had this and was sending it to Åmotsfors or Eskilstuna to be mounted on the rifle"
Ändring till kort slaglängd (alteration to short stroke)
Kolvförlängning av valnötsträ med skruvar (butt extensioner of walnut with screws)
Bakplåt av hårdgummi (buttplate of hard rubber)

And lower part of the document

Byte av defekta delar å insänt gevär m/96 (change of defective parts on rifle m/96)
Låda (receiver)
Slutstycke (bolt)

Sorry, dont have the the skill to translate all other technical words and cant find my "Crown Jewels" just now...maybe someone can fill in...

So...it seems this explains all different variations of CG 63 that shows up . And of course...all this variations are truly legit CG 63s.

Regards,
ARILAR

 

Great information

Thanks Arilar, I have never had any document sourced before this to prove when the 63 was being sold and used in the UK.
SwedeM63

 

M6 Photos

I happen to have an M6. Let's see if these photos will come through.

 

I happen to have an M6. Let's see if these photos will come through.

Thanks! Also wanted to see a m/6 pictured. Dont mind a full pic of the cleaning-rod!!
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Thank you Arilar for posting that documentation - it is a tremendously important contribution. Tack så mycket! For years, Dana's Crown Jewels has been one of the few sources of information for the CG 63 and it was from his book that I set my standards on what I want to find and have when I buy a CG 63 rifle. Your documents make it very clear and fill in the gaps in that information.

Questions still remain - Was any rifle that was produced or converted/modified by CG-FFV or Norma given the appropriate stamp on the receiver? Are there any other known markings that are specific to that process? Not all CG 63 rifles that have all of the attributes of a newly produced or fully converted rifle (i.e., 19mm barrel, modifications to the trigger, firing pin, cocking piece, receiver stamps, etc.) have a re-proof rune. Does this mean that the gunsmiths at CG-FFV or Norma determined that the rifle did not need to be re-proofed?

We need some examples of the markings left by FSR gunsmiths on converted/modified guns and since some of those gunsmiths from that period are surely still alive, finding that out may not be that difficult.

Although it is very clear from the documents that a military m/96 could just have the stock replaced, what things occurred during the overhaul that is also listed as part of that activity?

One of the points I raised earlier is also unanswered. Since originality is a basic premise of collecting these types of rifles, how is the originality of an m/96 barreled military action with a CG 63 stock to be determined? That is, how do we know such a rifle went through the official process in Sweden versus someone either in Sweden or the USA simply building a CG 63 like rifle out of parts. At the prices these rifles can command, that is the first thing I want to know. Can I establish the provenance of the rifle?

I can help on translating the technical terms for the gun parts on the order sheet and will get to that tomorrow.

 

We need some examples of the markings left by FSR gunsmiths on converted/modified guns and since some of those gunsmiths from that period are surely still alive, finding that out may not be that difficult.

Although it is very clear from the documents that a military m/96 could just have the stock replaced, what things occurred during the overhaul that is also listed as part of that activity?

Thanks for all translation-work Kriggevaer!! Splendid suggestion to contact a FSR gunsmith. Will try to do that. Think I can find one that actually was active with CG 63. Matter of fact, CG 63 still allowed according to FSR and a FSR gunsmith must be able to do the work or explain the process!
I think the overhaul could lead to the "change of defective parts" according to the price-list in the lower part of the document.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Rifle parts (delar) names in Swedish - English.

Låda = receiver
Slutstycke = bolt body
Tändstiftsmutter, kort slaglängd = cocking piece, shortened stroke length
Styrhylsa = bolt shroud
Tandstiftsmutter = cocking piece
Säkerhetsspärr = safety lever
Avtryckarstång = sear, not sure on this one
Tandstift = firing pin
Avtryckare = trigger
Utdragare = extractor
Kornring m/96 = front sight ring/base
Slagfjäder = firing pin spring

 

I believe it would be " impossible " to tell if any given rifle was all original as it came from CG-FFV or Norma !!!! Once the original " Crown/C , date & rune " was stamped on the receiver , it would most likely be rebuilt again & we know of no 2nd or 3rd time rebuild marks . My CG-63 with the " Crown/C " stamping has a Norma rebuild sticker on the stock , but no Norma markings on the receiver . I have not seen any CG-63's stamped with approved gunsmith's markings , so they may not have used them . If there are any , no one has shown them to date . The one CG-80 that I have with the intwined " JJG " , 86' date stamped on it is the only one that I know of presently . He is not listed in Crown Jewels . This fellow ( Ingvar Jansson ) could still be alive ?????

There are very few CG-63 parts available in the USA , so it is not likely many are put together here . It does not appear many CG-63 parts are abailable in Sweden either , or we would see them on EBAY . As we have recently seen 2 CG-80's at Allans Armory missing parts , I am sure they would be made complete if parts were available . For sure , the Swedish exporters would make a parts gun just to make another sale , but I doubt they would put much effort into the project as finding parts would be difficult . I doubt there is any way to prove the originality of these target rifles .

 

I believe it would be " impossible " to tell if any given rifle was all original as it came from CG-FFV or Norma !!!! Once the original " Crown/C , date & rune " was stamped on the receiver , it would most likely be rebuilt again & we know of no 2nd or 3rd time rebuild marks . My CG-63 with the " Crown/C " stamping has a Norma rebuild sticker on the stock , but no Norma markings on the receiver . I have not seen any CG-63's stamped with approved gunsmith's markings , so they may not have used them . If there are any , no one has shown them to date . The one CG-80 that I have with the intwined " JJG " , 86' date stamped on it is the only one that I know of presently . He is not listed in Crown Jewels . This fellow ( Ingvar Jansson ) could still be alive ?????

Well.....As I read the early papers only FFV made the totaly "new" CG63s and also the conversions. Norma was allowed only to make conversions. I wonder if maybe the FSR approved gunsmiths came in later. I suspect they didnt have FFVs approval to make the m/96 to m/63 conversions. In that case FFV would have to equip them with the typical CG 63 parts and I doubt they did. What I belive the FRS gunsmiths did was changing barrels (Otterups and Kongsbergs grow popular ,didnt they?) adjusting triggers, mounting diopters et.c. Seems I realy have to make that phone-call to an old gun-smith...
Regards,
ARILAR

 

On a m/96 fitted to a CG63 stock... how was the rear sight base treated? Was it unsoldered and left rough? Was it unsoldered and polished & blued? Is there any uniformity to how the rear sight base was treated in this particular variation?

Was the unique CG63 triggerguard and single stage trigger fitted to this m/96 variation of the CG63?

I can't think of anything else that distinguishes a m/96 from a CG63 that might shed some light on this.

Nice to see SwedeJohn pay us a visit.

Dutchman

 

Here is an illustration that I got from Pettson or Anders years back. Don't know where the original came from, other than Sweden.

Translation of explanation of barrel markings shown in illustration:

slutkontroll utförd = final inspection carried out
skottställning utförd = test shooting carried out
pipans utgängkaliber = initial bore diameter

Receiver marks:

tillverkningsnummer = manufacturer's production number

fabrik och årtal för omändring resp nyanskaffning = factory and year of conversion and replacement with new parts. (not quite right, but close)

högtrycksskjutning utförd = high pressure (proof) shooting carried out

 

Here is an illustration that I got from Pettson or Anders years back. Don't know where the original came from, other than Sweden.

Very useful illustration!! Thanks, explains a lot for me. Forgot to mention. Last weekend did a roundtrip with my daughter to visit relatives and friends. "Happened" to pass Husqvarna and Eskilstuna. Found both interesting objects and documents regarding evolution of CG 63. Has been promised copies and can then give you all info that maybe not known before. Can take a while though before I receive this papers. Have patience! I am very glad you all take part in this thread.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Arilar : The cleaning rod is just like a M-96 or M-38 cleaning rod , only 39 cm long . It also has a black nylon cleaning bushing about 3.5 cm long that fits the rod & the bore closely . Why , I do not know , because the rod is to short to use for cleaning . The black bushing appears cracked or busted in the photo .

Note the sketch of CG & Noma markings . The rune is differant for both types . I see a photo posted by FlightRN that only has the " NP " over date & no rune . The example in Crown Jewels also has no rune ( page 135 #287 ) . Does your Norma CG-63 have a rune on it ? Please post a photo if there is a rune .

I have seen the same sketch on Mats Persson's web site . He may be the originator of it . For some reason , his site did not work the last tine I was there .

 

Photo tomorrow!

Close to midnight here now. Will produce a day-light photo tomorrow before I go to shooting-range. If I recall right it has the rune. My vacation starts tomorrow!!
Regards,
ARILAR

 

Hej Arilar,

The new documents you are getting should be very interesting - tack så mycket for the effort.

The presence or absence of the rune mark has puzzled me for several years. I have discussed this with collectors here in the USA and Sweden, who have also noted that situation. It is a little odd that some rifles would be proofed and others not. Especially, if they are the full production models and not conversions or FSR built guns.

Also, Dana Jones notes in Crown Jewels that some 66,000 rifles resulted from this program. It would be useful to know how many were the "new production" rifles coming out of CG-FFV, those made at Norma, and conversions sent in by private owners.

 

Also, Dana Jones notes in Crown Jewels that some 66,000 rifles resulted from this program. It would be useful to know how many were the "new production" rifles coming out of CG-FFV, those made at Norma, and conversions sent in by private owners.

My feelings on totaly 66000 is that it might be accurate. Of course they must include the conversions. Is Normas production included? Would be interesting to know Danas source for this number.
FSR had in 1964 and 1965 applied for carbine m/94 (probably meaning m/94 or 94-14) to be given,and forwarded to FFV, from Swedish Government to be used to build CG 63. Answers came 14th of May 1964 and 7th of May 1965 and each time 5000 m/94 was given.
8th of November 1965 applied FSR to Swedish Government (Kungliga Försvarsdepartementet) on 20000 m/96 to be given to FFV and built to CG 63. 25th of February 1966 came the answer. FSR could be given 16000 m/96, 6000 at once and 4000 for each year 1967 and 1968. Finally the rest 2000 rifles 1969. Later FSR tried to shake out some more thousands of m/96 but I dont know to what success. Sweden had just some years ahead sold of a big amount of carbines as surplus abroad if I recall right so probably no more than those initially 10000 came to FFV.
That makes totally 26000 receivers and bolts that could be used at FFV to produce CG 63. How many more m/96 bolts and receivers that FFV finally got I dont know.
Remember that Norma wasnt allowed to build CG 63 from scratch, only convert what the shooters was sending in. Very few m/94 was in private hands. There was the very few prize-carbines from early times and officers-weapons (not likely that they would end up as CG 63). M/94 could be loaned for FSR-clubs to use for junior-shooters (youngsters under age of 16) but had to be sent back. Could not be bought out to shooters or clubs in the way m/96 was sold. I think that rather big quantity of the 500 fm/23 ended up as CG 63 and as we know some of the 100 fm/23-36 was converted to CG 63 (why did I let mine slip away!!).
So.... maybe roughly a little less than half of the 66000 CG63 produced was FFV new-made and the rest converted by Norma and FFV by sent in rifles.
If this is correct around 10000 CG 63 from m/94 receivers is produced and if above is right none CG 63 with m/94 receivers came out of Norma. Interesting to hear if anyone has a Norma GC 63 with m/94 receiver that contradicts my assumption. It also seems that new-made CG 63 from FFV was in the beginning made out of m/94 systems. So, these FFV CG63s from 94-systems should have early production years.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

No rune!!

Sorry my mistake, no rune on mine. Still......decided to keep her.....

I will get back to the amount new produced CG 63 from FFV (at least early years) later. Waiting for documents.
Regards,
ARILAR

 

I have not seen a Norma produced CG-63 with the rune . I wonder if Norma really used the " rune " ???? I have only seen a few Norma examples , so to few to make an assumption on that .

Thanks for the photos .

 

At one time there were a number of NP CG-63's sitting in the racks at Simpsons. Sounds like a road trip may be in order to check for runes.

 

There seems to be more CG-63 barrels ( stamped with a small "K" inside a "C" ) than Norma , Danish & Norwegian barrels . From my limited observations , probably at least 90% to 95% made by CG . If the FSR gunsmiths only did limited gun work , that would account for the lack of any FSR markings on receivers .

Perhaps you could look in a Swedish phone book & see if there is a listing for " Ingvar Jansson , Grena , Gatan 24D , Uppsala Tel 018-257552 " as from the CG-80 with his initials " JJG " & 1986 date . If still living at this address , he may have some info .

 

No Ingvar Jansson on that number any more and no Ingvar Jansson on Gröna Gatan, Uppsala. Strange, his name came up while discussing CG 63 with a friend today. Ingvar was a skilled shooter and gunsmith I was told.
Regards,
ARILAR