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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Following info is gathered from three small prints from Norma called "Norma nytt" (new from Norma) and are printed 1962,1963 and 1964.
It was a demand after a new rifle for FSR with good precision and aimed for competition. Norma in Åmotsfors and Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori in Eskilstuna seemed to have worked together on the subject. Delegates from Gevärsfaktoriet went to Åmotsfors 1961 to look at the "skyttegevär" (shooting-rifle) that had been put together by gun-smith Eric Hellqvist (yes...the same that made the diopter with his name on it) and major Björn Zachrisson. But it was in Eskilstuna the possibilities for production existed so Gevärsfaktoriet started to make try-out rifles. (freely from Norma nytt 1962).

To hold down costs decision was made to use m/96 as base. Summer 1961 had Gevärsfaktoriet made five try-out rifles that had the stock from hunting-rifle m/Trofé as starting-point. First result was announced autumn 1961. Further improvements by Erik Wallberg at Eskilstuna led to prototype CG 62 that was tested winter 61/62. Summer 1962 field-tests by military and civilian shooters led to further improvements and finally... CG 63 (Type 1) was born. In November 1962 was CG 63 approved by "skytteförbundens överstyrelses verkställande utskott" (FSR superior boards executive committee). and thereby on proposal for next FSR parliament in (to be held May 1963) as FSRs next shooting-rifle. A requirement was of course that the CG 63 also was approved as an army-model. (freely from Norma nytt 1963).

Pics on CG 63 type 1 for right and left shooter.


During autumn 1963 was the army involved in try-outs with type 1 CG 63. The army was not satisfied with the stock and several adjustments had to be made. Now CG 63 type 2 was born in September 1963. In October field-test was held at InfSS, infanteriets Stridsskola (Infantry War Academy). They was done in December 1963 and army model m/6 and m/7 was planned to be approved February 1964. The plan was to start deliver the first CG 63 to FSR shooters in April 1964. (freely from Norma nytt 1964).

Pics showing differences between type 1 and type 2 CG 63.


1. "rosett" withdrawn.
2. Moved forward about 12 mm.
3. Raised about 6-8 mm.
4. Cheek-support same both sides.
5. Increased to 134 mm.

Well....all for tonight. But will continue within next days. If anyone has different info on this please let us know. Maybe this has been covered before..
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It is some great info! I think that it was universally accepted that the primary difference between the two models was just the provisions for the cleaning rod. Now that there is a comparative photo of both stocks and the differences pointed out, you can see they are really different from each other.
Sorry if I have been unclear. CG63 is a "civilian" model for FSR. M/6 is the military version with cutout for disc, cleaningrod and GF diopter as only differences (well...GF diopter of course can be used on the FSR CG 63). What I have shown as "type 1" is the first FSR approved CG 63 (used as try-out rifle during summer 1963 and shown in left and right version on the pic with the couple above) that wasnt accepted by the army and never got into production for FSR neither. Type 2 of CG 63 was the CG 63 that came into production and was "model" for the army m/6. Hope this can make more sense.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
CG 63, info the year 1965.



Above is the info directly from FFV 1965. Describes what differs between m/96 and CG 63. Tells among other things that the barrel is conical and now 19 mm diameter instead of 17,5 mm before (therefore more heavy compared to m/96 barrel). Slower twist (220 mm instead of 200). Total lenght the same. Walnut stock and free-floating barrel. Receiver to be "glossy" or black-oxided and much more. This is the CG 63 that could be ordered from Gevärsfaktoriet if a new CG 63 was wanted. Conversion from m/96 sent in by FSRshooters could be done both at Gevärsfaktoriet and Norma at this time.




This document from FFV are dated october 1965. Tells that production of CG 63 started April 1964 and in end of May 1964 was the first 50 rifles CG 63 delivered. The numbers of rifles each month has then been raised and since May 1965 kept around 600 rifles (I guess for each month. In the numbers it seems both new made and conversion are included). A special document had to be used and filled in for order of a CG 63 (will show that in a later post). Estimated time from order of a new CG 63 was 6 weeks and for conversions 6-8 weeks (from time the rifle arrived to Åmotsfors or Eskilstuna). News: Buttplate in "hard rubber" now able to get. A "field-competent" diopter under construction. Not to be ready before before shooting-season 1966 (this was the GF-diopter that wasnt ready. A disappointment of course for FFV that instead had to offer Söderin or Elit. If you sent in a Hauge, Hooka or Lyman it could be mounted as well. So what is written in "Crown Jewels" about diopters in the beginning for CG 63 differs from the how it actually was). Note that pics shows CG 63 with Elit-diopter.

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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Orderform used 1965!

Here we go.....this document was required when getting your CG 63 of any kind.



This is upper part and I will try to translate parts of it.



Nedanstående utförande beställes (following model is ordered)
Nyanskaffning av Skyttegevär (new acquisition of shooting-rifle)
Ändring av insänt gevär m/96; byte av stock och pipa samt översyn (alteration of sent rifle m/96; replacement of stock, barrel and overhaul)
byte av enbart stock samt översyn (replacement of only stock and overhaul)
Nedanstående tillägg beställes (following additions are ordered)
Inköp och montering av (purchase and mounting of)
med (with)
särskild för sig insänt (specially by itself sent) "meaning that you already had this and was sending it to Åmotsfors or Eskilstuna to be mounted on the rifle"
Ändring till kort slaglängd (alteration to short stroke)
Kolvförlängning av valnötsträ med skruvar (butt extensioner of walnut with screws)
Bakplåt av hårdgummi (buttplate of hard rubber)

And lower part of the document



Byte av defekta delar å insänt gevär m/96 (change of defective parts on rifle m/96)
Låda (receiver)
Slutstycke (bolt)

Sorry, dont have the the skill to translate all other technical words and cant find my "Crown Jewels" just now...maybe someone can fill in...

So...it seems this explains all different variations of CG 63 that shows up . And of course...all this variations are truly legit CG 63s.

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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
CG 63 for U.K.!

A great post with all new information.

I have always wondered about evolution of the 7.62 x 51 versions of the M63 rifle. Reynolds and Fulton's 1972 book Target Rifle Shooting references the M63 fitted with parker Hale sights was trialled for adoption on the UK when they were crossing over from the 303 Br to the 7.62 x 51 cartridge. It doesn't give a date but it would have been about 1968 when the changover occurred.

Interesting too that the original M96 action was perfectly OK for this cartridge.
Hi SwedeM63!
I have posted this before but maybe on "Old Gunboard". Do you refer to military try-outs or civilian ones? I have been told that FFV was not all happy with Parker Hales efforts to market the CG 63 7,62 Nato-version as target rifle. As you can see is this news-letter from "late" July 1968.
BTW. Interesting info is that by this time 16000 (guess both all-new and conversions counted) of CG 63s hade been made!! Remember, production started 1964 with first 50 ready in May same year.........I am counting........about 300 each month if production all year around. Guess demand was at top in Sweden the first years when 600 could be made each month.



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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
We need some examples of the markings left by FSR gunsmiths on converted/modified guns and since some of those gunsmiths from that period are surely still alive, finding that out may not be that difficult.

Although it is very clear from the documents that a military m/96 could just have the stock replaced, what things occurred during the overhaul that is also listed as part of that activity?
Thanks for all translation-work Kriggevaer!! Splendid suggestion to contact a FSR gunsmith. Will try to do that. Think I can find one that actually was active with CG 63. Matter of fact, CG 63 still allowed according to FSR and a FSR gunsmith must be able to do the work or explain the process!
I think the overhaul could lead to the "change of defective parts" according to the price-list in the lower part of the document.
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Here is an illustration that I got from Pettson or Anders years back. Don't know where the original came from, other than Sweden.
Very useful illustration!! Thanks, explains a lot for me. Forgot to mention. Last weekend did a roundtrip with my daughter to visit relatives and friends. "Happened" to pass Husqvarna and Eskilstuna. Found both interesting objects and documents regarding evolution of CG 63. Has been promised copies and can then give you all info that maybe not known before. Can take a while though before I receive this papers. Have patience! I am very glad you all take part in this thread.
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Photo tomorrow!

Close to midnight here now. Will produce a day-light photo tomorrow before I go to shooting-range. If I recall right it has the rune. My vacation starts tomorrow!!:):)
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
No rune!!

Sorry my mistake, no rune on mine:(. Still......decided to keep her.....:)






I will get back to the amount new produced CG 63 from FFV (at least early years) later. Waiting for documents.
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I believe it would be " impossible " to tell if any given rifle was all original as it came from CG-FFV or Norma !!!! Once the original " Crown/C , date & rune " was stamped on the receiver , it would most likely be rebuilt again & we know of no 2nd or 3rd time rebuild marks . My CG-63 with the " Crown/C " stamping has a Norma rebuild sticker on the stock , but no Norma markings on the receiver . I have not seen any CG-63's stamped with approved gunsmith's markings , so they may not have used them . If there are any , no one has shown them to date . The one CG-80 that I have with the intwined " JJG " , 86' date stamped on it is the only one that I know of presently . He is not listed in Crown Jewels . This fellow ( Ingvar Jansson ) could still be alive ?????

Well.....As I read the early papers only FFV made the totaly "new" CG63s and also the conversions. Norma was allowed only to make conversions. I wonder if maybe the FSR approved gunsmiths came in later. I suspect they didnt have FFVs approval to make the m/96 to m/63 conversions. In that case FFV would have to equip them with the typical CG 63 parts and I doubt they did. What I belive the FRS gunsmiths did was changing barrels (Otterups and Kongsbergs grow popular ,didnt they?) adjusting triggers, mounting diopters et.c. Seems I realy have to make that phone-call to an old gun-smith...
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
No Ingvar Jansson on that number any more and no Ingvar Jansson on Gröna Gatan, Uppsala. Strange, his name came up while discussing CG 63 with a friend today. Ingvar was a skilled shooter and gunsmith I was told.
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
More on CG63 for UK!

Found this:







For unknown reason was pics lacking on the last part about CG 63 above (last part from catalogue G.E. Fulton & Son, Bisley Camp Surrey).


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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
CG 74 and CG 63 T!

1974 was tryout-rifle CG 74 presented by GF (Gevärsfaktoriet). During some time they had been working on a new "skyttegevärsmodell" (rifleshootings-model). Basically was m/74 using the old 94 or 96 system but with a new barrel with 21 mm diam. at muzzle and 30 mm at base. That ment 2 mm thicker than before on CG 63. Shorter barrel (670 mm length instead of CG 63s 740). Rifle-twist 210 (220 before). "Bombredd" (cant remember english expression) just 1,5 mm instead of 2,4 mm before. Blastered, lustreless surface on outside. The forstock shorter and no handguard. As tunnel front sight was used same as on CG m/6 and CG Junior. Inserts m/Universal could be used. I dont know if any, and if so, how many of this that reached the shooters. 1979 is reported that the coming new model should be m/74 but the stock should be five layers of laminated wood (walnut). Next year was CG 80 introduced.

Well....the CG 63 T then. The same year when CG 74 was announced (1974 of course) saw 63 T the day-light. This was a cheaper version of the m/74 that could later be converted to a true 74. Simply making room for the m/74 barrel in stock and handguard (guess in many cases the hand-guard wasnt used) and wood-works to get place for front sling-swivel (so not getting in contact with the bigger barrel). New stationary tunnel front sight (m/Universal). Total weight for CG 63 T was 4,7 kg instead of m/74 4,8 kg. Almost forgot.....T stands for "tung" (heavy) and correspond to the barrel of course.

Here is a pic of the CG 74 as presented 1974.



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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Also, Dana Jones notes in Crown Jewels that some 66,000 rifles resulted from this program. It would be useful to know how many were the "new production" rifles coming out of CG-FFV, those made at Norma, and conversions sent in by private owners.
My feelings on totaly 66000 is that it might be accurate. Of course they must include the conversions. Is Normas production included? Would be interesting to know Danas source for this number.
FSR had in 1964 and 1965 applied for carbine m/94 (probably meaning m/94 or 94-14) to be given,and forwarded to FFV, from Swedish Government to be used to build CG 63. Answers came 14th of May 1964 and 7th of May 1965 and each time 5000 m/94 was given.
8th of November 1965 applied FSR to Swedish Government (Kungliga Försvarsdepartementet) on 20000 m/96 to be given to FFV and built to CG 63. 25th of February 1966 came the answer. FSR could be given 16000 m/96, 6000 at once and 4000 for each year 1967 and 1968. Finally the rest 2000 rifles 1969. Later FSR tried to shake out some more thousands of m/96 but I dont know to what success. Sweden had just some years ahead sold of a big amount of carbines as surplus abroad if I recall right so probably no more than those initially 10000 came to FFV.
That makes totally 26000 receivers and bolts that could be used at FFV to produce CG 63. How many more m/96 bolts and receivers that FFV finally got I dont know.
Remember that Norma wasnt allowed to build CG 63 from scratch, only convert what the shooters was sending in. Very few m/94 was in private hands. There was the very few prize-carbines from early times and officers-weapons (not likely that they would end up as CG 63). M/94 could be loaned for FSR-clubs to use for junior-shooters (youngsters under age of 16) but had to be sent back. Could not be bought out to shooters or clubs in the way m/96 was sold. I think that rather big quantity of the 500 fm/23 ended up as CG 63 and as we know some of the 100 fm/23-36 was converted to CG 63 (why did I let mine slip away!!:().
So.... maybe roughly a little less than half of the 66000 CG63 produced was FFV new-made and the rest converted by Norma and FFV by sent in rifles.
If this is correct around 10000 CG 63 from m/94 receivers is produced and if above is right none CG 63 with m/94 receivers came out of Norma. Interesting to hear if anyone has a Norma GC 63 with m/94 receiver that contradicts my assumption. It also seems that new-made CG 63 from FFV was in the beginning made out of m/94 systems. So, these FFV CG63s from 94-systems should have early production years.
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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
This might be try-out CG 62 stock!!

Remember that summer 1961 was made 5 try-out rifles that used stock from hunting-rifles Trofé/Trapper Lyx as base. Winter 1962 was first prototype CG 62 made. Autumn 1962 was first version of CG 63 presented and FSR-approved spring 1963. Not accepted to military standards so version 2 of CG 63(final version) was ready just in the end of 1963.

This is a stock used in Eskilstuna for try-outs and I think its a CG 62 or maybe very early style of version 1, CG 63. I compare it here with my CG 63.





Here is the add from FFV 1965 regarding hunting-rifle Trapper/Trapper Lyx.



Trapper Lyx compared to version 1 CG 63 just below.




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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
The plans of introducing CG 62.

Got this sketch on introduction of CG 62 that later never got into production. Makes me sure that my stock on pics above is from a try-out rifle CG 62. What do you think?





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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
Hi mate, isnt that amazing!

Thanks Pete D!! I would never had thought about if you hadnt showed me the way!
Sure it has to be the same old wood. Have taken some new pics in bad light indoors tonight but you must be absolutely right!! Have tried to alter the colours slightly to find the pattern.





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ARILAR:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I am a believer!!

Interesting thoughts.... In this case I do believe Pete D are right. The stock was given to me by the person that did try-out shootings 1962 using this actual stock on a rifle. He wasnt sure what version of the CG 62 or 63 it had been. He was employeed by FFV and member of the shooting-club in Eskilstuna and at that time one of the most promising free-rifle shooters (as junior-shooter) in Sweden. Funny is that one year later (just some months ago) he found the sketches for CG 62 I have shown. This stock has had butt-plate and grip-cap on before but removed.
I will give you further pics later today. I also diminished the pics above to be easier to compare.
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ARILAR:)
 
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