[Tempest2]

...IIRC, the average American household only has enough food in the pantry for less than 72 hours.

Per our old LDS neighbors, LDS requires a year food supply. However that is the goal they work towards, It is not something they have to go out and buy all at once. From what I have seen, they basically stock up on what they normally buy. That is the model that I use. I have zero of the mountain house type freeze dried ''survival'' foods. I have a lot of what we normally use. I also have 2 chest freezers and 2 refrigerators.

As I've written here before, it is easy and inexpensive to buy and store a year's supply of calories for one person. The catch is, it's far from a balanced diet, and would get very monotonous after just a few days - all of which is still much better than starving.

I'm talking about a lot of dry bulk grocery store staples like beans, rice, flour, sugar, corn-meal etc., plus a gallon of cooking oil per month. Maybe some pasta and other stuff with a long shelf live. I've done this for decades, and rotate my stock every 5- to-7 years or so, stored in old pickle buckets. There's no rule against paying a little more augmenting it with a little freeze-dried or canned protein foods.

I'm pretty sure a year's supply is well under $1,000 per person (it's been a few years since my latest toss-it and replace routine).

A classic "don't let the best be the enemy of the good" program that could save your life some day! Some day that hopefully never comes.

 

[Pál_K]

An unmentioned factor is medicine - I do not think it is possible to have a year's supply of that.

But perhaps it is fitting that only the healthy survive.

 

[staffy]

It's kind of obvious that the vast majority of urban and suburban residents have no intention, plan or ability to go anywhere when "the balloon goes up." And if more than a handful try, can you say "gridlock?"

Some reading these posts are in that category: Outside places like GunBoards, few of them have thought realistically about what they would do.

That said, having a plan and some preps is good idea wherever you live. At the very least everyone should have a few weeks of "iron rations*," and even more important, a water supply. A waterbed is the classic solution for the latter - assuming yours can be accessed a few gallons at a time. Just or more important is safe human waste disposal.

Gun-people should probably keep that status quiet lest the arsenal makes them a target.

The standard-issue urban/suburban nightmare scenario is neighborhoods very quickly become killing zones occupied by desperate and homicidal individuals or groups. Maybe that happens, but prep-minded urban/suburban residents probably shouldn't assume it will.

One big challenge is guessing the duration of the hard times. In the event "forever" becomes a reality, the necessary prep may be simple: A single bullet.

That's possible, but it might take a while before the reality becomes apparent, and no one wants to jump the gun! So some reasonable preps are still in order.

*See post 101 below.


ETA: It may be useful to find ways to "harden" a residence so the wrong people cannot easily get in. Ideally in a non-obvious way, but that may be asking too much.

Steel blinders like these are common in Europe; I've never seen any in the USA:
View attachment 4348767 View attachment 4348769

Roller shutters are pretty well commonplace in Oz. I addition we have metal window frames & 6mm laminated glass fitted.

 

[Black Blade]

Been warning that economic collapse or a "Greater Depression" was the most likely outcome after decades of reckless "dollar creation" out of thin air. The inevitable result is economic collapse (or USD collapse). That's why we have been buying physical precious metals, mining shares and cyptos for the last 20+ years. That's why we have long term food storage, a large garden and do a lot of food preservation, etc.

Mad Max World

New World Order-Survive and Thrive in the Post Apocalyptic World (PAW).

www.tapatalk.com

Why we stocked up on bulk ammo and weapons when it was inexpensive - especially when the Iron Curtain fell and it could be had for pennies.

 

[Webley One]

Not many survival folks really have a good template of NEEDED stuff in gravest extreme. All have a few bottles of water a bag of crackers or energy bars, but do not contemplate SHELTER needs. I guess they assume they will sleep in their cars. Very few have saws, hammers, tents, even pocket knives and very few have firearms. I "preach" gently at social gatherings hereabouts. My main concern, which I cannot address, is my need for prescription meds in the long term.

Shelter is a big concern. Recently there was a sale at a big sporting goods store that was selling BIG ground blinds for $50. I bought two and they are big enough for 3 or 4 adults in lieu of a tent. Another oversight by survival wannabees is FIRE! I asked my friends aboit their match supply? DUH, what did he say? I have a dozen 500 count boxes of wood matches sealed in case of need.

Our PA department of Emergency Services booklet has many shortfalls so I called the 800 number and got a medical facility. I called my state representative and got the main number and chatted with the Director. I asked why there was no advice to citizens to have a firearm in their emergency shelter. He said, "We do not want to incur liability!" I asked what liability in involved when police response is no longer available? He did not have an answer. I suggest all people inquire of their state's Emergency Services department what is recommended.

Bunker down, in case of need.....

Webley

 

[Nagloc68]

Steel blinders like these are common in Europe; I've never seen any in the USA:

I have seen these roller shutters in Florida. I rented a beach front condo one Thanksgiving and it had these on all its exterior glass doors and windows for hurricane protection. We had to roll them up when we arrived and roll them down when we left. So I am sure they are available and "reasonably" affordable. Great discussions.

 

[Pál_K]

For medications, it helps if you're on a 90-day supply program. Typically your insurance will allow a refill one week in advance, so what you can do is get your refills the week before you run out and, from the refills, save 7 items of the medication. What you'd be doing is getting 90-day refills every 83 days and saving 7 of the newest items each time.

It'll take a while, but you would be able to build up and maintain some aging stock of the medication. Better than nothing at all.

I have never tried this, so I can't vouch for it. It seems the insurance company resets their 90-day clock every time they do the refill. Is it insurance fraud? I don't believe so - eventually you will be using your supply; you're just providing a cushion in case supplies are interrupted, which is a possibility because some suppliers are from foreign countries.

 

[3L120]

Well, my neighbor has several free roaming cats that like to crap in my wife’s flower garden. Appear to be well fed!

 

[Black Blade]

Times are different now. My parents and grandparents lived through the Great Depression. Much like Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" except my family already had a farm and raised chickens, pigs and cows. Then nearly 40% of America was an agrarian society. I was easily possible to live off the farm. Today family farms are an oddity rather than the norm were every farm is part of a huge agribusiness or owned by billionaire "hobby farmers" and "hobby ranchers" like Bill Gates, Ted Turner, etc. The average American now lives in a society were food comes from McDonald's and Walmart and electricity comes out from that "thing" in the wall. Most today will not survive an economic depression because we have "just in time" inventory and food stores only carry a three-day supply on their shelves. Everyone knows about "Nine Meals From Anarchy" where after food supplies are disrupted and no help is available, society breaks down (ie Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc.).

This is part of these reason why "Prepping" is a growing lifestyle for many Americans. Many see "the writing on the wall" as far as the coming economic collapse is concerned. It's been repeated throughout history around the world. Americans today have been lulled into a state of complacency believing that there will always be food and support services available should there be any disruptions. Prepper and Survivalists (not always the same thing) are taking responsibility for themselves and their families by getting out of debt, "prepping" food storage stocking up non-perishable long term food storage, food preservation (home canning, dehydrating and freeze-drying), gardening ("Victory Gardens"?), stocking up basic necessities, accumulating hard assets over paper currency, stocking up weapons and ammo, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe nothing serious will happen but it's best be be prepared just in case. As they say, "better to have it and not need it tan to need it and not have it". That's the whole point of any type of "insurance". If you think that the Government will be there to help then think again. Lok at how miserable FEMA and other Government agencies let down the affected people in stricken regions (ie Hurricane Katrina, regional floods from Hurricane Celene,etc.). In such aneconomic or societal collapse the Poliicans and Civil Servans won't give a fats ass what happens to the people as they will be more concerned about thmselves and their families. That's just the reality. People who are paying atention to the world around them are likely prepping and the rest only have themselves to blame.

 

[jyo]

For medications, it helps if you're on a 90-day supply program. Typically your insurance will allow a refill one week in advance, so what you can do is get your refills the week before you run out and, from the refills, save 7 items of the medication. What you'd be doing is getting 90-day refills every 83 days and saving 7 of the newest items each time.

It'll take a while, but you would be able to build up and maintain some aging stock of the medication. Better than nothing at all.

I have never tried this, so I can't vouch for it. It seems the insurance company resets their 90-day clock every time they do the refill. Is it insurance fraud? I don't believe so - eventually you will be using your supply; you're just providing a cushion in case supplies are interrupted, which is a possibility because some suppliers are from foreign countries.

And this is exactly what I've done for quite some time! Fortunately, my HMO will allow refills for a bit more than a week in advance, and I've been able to stockpile at least six months or more of most needed meds, but what then? Seeing as many of the meds in this country now come from China now, resupply will become a problem sooner or later... A bigger immediate problem will become a continuous source of clean water and pretty soon, human waste and normal trash disposal---what you gonna do about that...? As older people, living on a farm is not really a solution---farming is HARD work with often long wait times for crops to be ready to eat, and you better have some fruit trees around to supply some vitamin C---you can't just survive on wheat and meat... No easy choices here...!

 

[Tempest2]

An unmentioned factor is medicine - I do not think it is possible to have a year's supply of that. But perhaps it is fitting that only the healthy survive.

Some meds have real-deal half-lives, and others last very long or pretty much forever. Find out which category yours belong in.

If the half-life is short, find out if another drug does the same thing but lasts substantially longer.

If you're stuck with short half-lifes, find out if refrigeration or some other method can extend them. If the former, figure out a plan for keeping a fridge going if the grid goes down.

I'll think of more, but that's all step 1.

Step 2 is talk to your doctor about building a stash where possible. If he/she is a dick about it, find an MD who gets it and is willing to cooperate.

Certain signs suggest to me that not a few docs may be willing to play along with bigger quanties, more frequent renewals and other methods to build a stash. Don't assume they're all control freaks who won't play along, as long as there's no risk to themselves.

 

[14tony]

Some meds have real-deal half-lives, and others last very long or pretty much forever. Find out which category yours belong in.

If the half-life is short, find out if another drug does the same thing but lasts substantially longer.

If you're stuck with short half-lifes, find out if refrigeration or some other method can extend them. If the former, figure out a plan for keeping a fridge going if the grid goes down.

I'll think of more, but that's all step 1.

Step 2 is talk to your doctor about building a stash where possible. If he/she is a dick about it, find an MD who gets it and is willing to cooperate.

Certain signs suggest to me that not a few docs may be willing to play along with bigger quanties, more frequent renewals and other methods to build a stash. Don't assume they're all control freaks who won't play along, as long as there's no risk to themselves.

Liquid suspension drugs have a fairly short life span compared to pill and powder form drugs if stored properly. DOD did a long term storage study on drugs and stopped after 15 years when they found at that point there was little or no deterioration in pill and powder form drugs noting that in normal circumstances inventory turnover would be no where near 15 years.

 

[3L120]

As I've written here before, it is easy and inexpensive to buy and store a year's supply of calories for one person. The catch is, it's far from a balanced diet, and would get very monotonous after just a few days - all of which is still much better than starving.

I'm talking about a lot of dry bulk grocery store staples like beans, rice, flour, sugar, corn-meal etc., plus a gallon of cooking oil per month. Maybe some pasta and other stuff with a long shelf live. I've done this for decades, and rotate my stock every 5- to-7 years or so, stored in old pickle buckets. There's no rule against paying a little more augmenting it with a little freeze-dried or canned protein foods.

I'm pretty sure a year's supply is well under $1,000 per person (it's been a few years since my latest toss-it and replace routine).

A classic "don't let the best be the enemy of the good" program that could save your life some day! Some day that hopefully never comes.

Please don’t invite me over for dinner! Please!

 

[Tempest2]

Please don’t invite me over for dinner! Please!

If the kind of scenarios we describe happen, you'd be begging for an invitation!

"Please sir, I want some more."

 

[Pál_K]

Some meds have real-deal half-lives, and others last very long or pretty much forever. Find out which category yours belong in.

If the half-life is short, find out if another drug does the same thing but lasts substantially longer.

If you're stuck with short half-lifes, find out if refrigeration or some other method can extend them. If the former, figure out a plan for keeping a fridge going if the grid goes down.

I'll think of more, but that's all step 1.

Step 2 is talk to your doctor about building a stash where possible. If he/she is a dick about it, find an MD who gets it and is willing to cooperate.

Certain signs suggest to me that not a few docs may be willing to play along with bigger quanties, more frequent renewals and other methods to build a stash. Don't assume they're all control freaks who won't play along, as long as there's no risk to themselves.

We have been creating a nation of diabetics. Burned into my mind is what I saw at a local Shari's (*) restaurant about 20 years ago: family with parents likely in late 30's, both very overweight (300 lbs?) having breakfast with their two or three young kids, probably 6-10 years old, and the kids have to be from 120 to 150 lbs; they were huge. Worse, after eating their stack of pancakes, they all had cake, pie, ice cream, with lots of whipped cream and chocolate syrup. That's ok once in a while, but it seems they made that a weekly event. Those kids are going to be diabetic before they're 20.

Pills for diabetes can last. But if you need to be on insulin, that needs to be refrigerated in order to last much longer than a few weeks. I don't know if stocking up on riskier over-the-counter insulin or pills is viable.

I don't understand why we've let China be the main source for our antibiotics or other medications. I fully believe the purpose of the Wuhan lab has been to develop specific viruses and antidotes for those viruses such that they can release or threaten to release a virus on the world and only they will have the antidote. I believe they have no qualms about implementing biological warfare. It is astonishing to me that multiple US administrations seem to have done nothing to stop our dependency on medical supplies from outside nations.


(*) Pacific Northwest chain serving American style food; famous for pies. I think they're all gone now.

 

[3L120]

Utah has its share of 300#ers.. there is always a pill for that, isn there? But you can’t mention their weight or you are fat shaming, which is BAD, we have one in our in church. Nice lady, but gross let overweight, probably pushing 400#. Young with two kids. I am 80, but will probably outlast her!

 

[jyo]

^^^ My nephew sadly was 370+ lbs the last time I saw him---he once told me how bad he was feeling during a lunch meeting, and asked me to drive him to Kaiser ER, which I did---they took him in and shortly a doctor came out and told me they were gonna keep him because his blood pressure was so high they couldn't release him... Unfortunately he recently passed away at age forty... We're all gonna die of something, but don't let food kill you...

 

[fireman]

Biggest guy we had to deal with was 740 lbs. Of course he was on welfare and living in subsidized housing. The apartment was on the 7th floor. A tiny elevator also. It barely fit a medic and the cot. We picked him up twice. First time when he fell. Second time a few weeks later when he died. Each time we needed 2 medics and 8 firefighters.

 

[sweetgrass2305]

Great responses. Not many folks today would know how to grow a carrot or skin out a rabbit. How many have a few packs of garden seeds or a .22 rifle? I am a country boy and always had a garden and a pair of Beagles back in the 1960s. Many folks do not own a .22 rifle and would not be able to shoot a rabbit. Many of my urban/suburban friends do not even own a bucket in response to a question: Where WOULD you go for a bucket of water when NONE comes out of your kitchen tap? All folks were dumbfounded! All said they would call for services!

I live on a lovely 60-acre rural farm I bought in 1988. I have 30 acres woods, 30 acres hayfields, 5 springs that provide all the water I need and I hunt my land. I have several gardens and 100+ packs of seeds in reserve. I heat my home with a woodstove and have cords put by for next Winter. So, I guess I would say that a world-wide depression would not bother me much.

On the other hand, all the urban/suburban folks DEPENDENT on "SERVICES" will freak out when the government teat goes DRY! None need come here for sustinence. All my rural neighbors have agreed on our local contingency plan. We have a few dairy farmers, a doctor, a dentist and a dozen farmers doing crops. We are prepared to go back a Century, or two, to the hand tools and horses our forebearers trived on. Amen

Webley

Webley, you and I have communicated in the recent past and I believe we must think somewhat alike. I was raised on a fairly large wheat farm for the time (750 acres) in eastern Montana. A farm that size today couldn't amount to you know what in a whirlwind as far as trying to make a living on. Many farms about that size have been sold to Japanese and other foreign investors with big money and now control 10's of thousands of acres back in eastern Montana and North Dakota. Four (4) or five (5) skilled farm hands with huge machines (tractors, cultivators, combines, insecticide sprayers and so forth) can raise millions of bushels of small grain crops easier that we could our 50,000 bushels on 750 acres. They are doing just that with a large percentage of that grain going overseas to their home countries. Our government won't realize any revenue from it since the grain is owned by the land owner and it is being sent by the owner home to the owner's home country. I know this has wandered pretty far afield from the subject matter, but a lot of Americans aren't aware of it and wouldn't care very much if they were aware. One entire county in eastern Montana (that extends from the Missouri River to the Canadian border, about 100 miles) is being bought up by mostly foreign money to make a large hunting / game reserve for big game and big dollar hunting excursions.

 

[sweetgrass2305]

I'm not very concerned about hoards of non-prepper types evacuating the cities. The way things seem to be shaping up in these troubled times the densely populated cities could and most likely be the targets of long range nuclear missiles. Everyone in these targeted cities and major military installations within 50 miles of the impact areas will be dead within a few days. Only a very, very few would ever make it out of the kill zone. Those that might make it out will likely be dead within 30 days from the radiation fall out. If and or when WWIII happens an individual had better be ready to meet his / her maker. That's the most important preparation possible. Albert Einstein once said "I'm not sure how WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.