I second this post. Will personally do my best to be considerate. The term "Jap" has been institutionalized to a degree, like 6.5x50 Ammo is ubiquitously knows as 6.5 "Jap", or 7.7 ammo for that matter. Perhaps the mods could revisit website rules to help enforce a change. The term has become part of our verbiage as collectors so I am compassionate to those who use it. But I agree we need to gently remind and reinforce that it is bad slang.

 

The term "Jap" has been institutionalized to a degree, like 6.5x50 Ammo is ubiquitously knows as 6.5 "Jap", or 7.7 ammo for that matter.

I'm curious if people here, or those of Japanese ancestry in general, consider such uses of the word offensive?

 

I beg to differ with the above posts. My grandmother's brother, Seaman 1st Class Joseph Fedorchak and the entire crew of the USS Triton are on eternal patrol because of the "Japs". My Grandmother never forgave the Japanese and would never own anything made in Japan. She even refused to ride in Japanese cars!
Do not forget the sneak attack at Pearl Harbor or the brutal way the "Japs" treated American POW's, does the Batan Death March mean anything to you?
In my book there are only Americans. You are to "woke" and too far left if you believe otherwise. A final note the United States won the war and therefore has the right to call the losers what they want.
Stick to the topic of GUNS.

 

And this forum has rules that we would like you to follow.

 

Is it really that hard to just not say a word that was used in such a negative way? It’s 2021, not 1941. If people still harbor enough hatred to feel they need to use that word, I feel sorry for them. I’m sure our actual Japanese members who could contribute to this forum would love to be here with those kind of racial slurs being thrown around.

 

Some perspective.
My wife is German descent with a German surname. I’ve done business with Germans.
I would never refer to them as Nazis.

I’ve also done business with Japanese citizens and would never refer to them OR those of an Japanese-American descent as “Japs”. To avoid offending them.

Yet, as a WW2 military or political reference, “Nazi” is appropriate.
Even though many Wermacht were not party members.

When referring to WW2 Japanese military members or political leaders, use of the word “Jap” is historically, etymologically, & contextually correct.

This over sensitive “woke” 2021 attitude only serves to dilute history.
However, not my forum, not my rules.

Please also consider deleting all foreign references to Americans as “Yankees” or “Yanks”.
As a native Texan, that term is considered. offensive. (Only exaggerating to make a point).

FYI, my dad graduated HS in May of 1942 and spent his youth in the Pacific theatre on a Liberty ship.
Thank you Taffy-3, he was a target of the IJN , down in the engine room at anchor, during the Philippine Invasion.

Respectfully,
RFA

 

I too would like to hear from Americans of Japanese ancestry.

As someone of English ancestry I certainly do not find the shortened form of British (Brit) to be offensive, unless one might conclude that I might be descended from that shortened form of Scottish (Scot). (Just a joke, my kilt wearing friends :-} When not in the US I have been known to call myself a Yank, though not a DamnYankee!

Friends of Swedish ancestry have been known to used that shortened form of Swedish (Swede) and many Rhodesian friends use the shorten form of Rhodesian ((Rhodie). I even know some men from Finland who call themselves Finns.

As to a derogatory term, I don’t know and would wait to hear but a simple contraction of a word, as shown above, is not necessarily an insult.

 

My grandfather joined the 442nd out of Gila River Internment Camp, then it was off to Camp Blanding for training and Italy for fighting. Yes, “Jap” is absolutely a racist term, but I honestly can’t fault a bunch of older gun guys for using it, since that just might be how they were brought up. My only worry is that it makes the gun collector community look like a bunch of doofuses to younger guys.

 

I'm of partial Japanese ancestry. None of my ancestors fought in the Sino-Japanese or Pacific war, but they were living in Eastern Canada where they were regarded as evil "Japs" and expelled from their neighborhood. That has always been an important lesson for me. You can be completely innocent but government propaganda can incite so much hatred among the masses that your own neighbors will turn on you. It could be said we are seeing that happening again today in some places but that's another story.
So as for the term "Jap" it doesn't personally offend me but I'm not a fan of casually throwing it around either. Sure it is just a shortening of the full word, but it was used extensively as a slur and just has a negative history behind it. It should be kept to period materials and quotations but not used today for casual discussions. This isn't "woke" or disrespectful of victims of the Japanese. "Jap" is a blanket slur to all Japanese, whereas the perpetrators were the Japanese military. It's the same reason why we can't go around calling Arabs, Vietnamese, Koreans, etc slurs today just because we've been at war with them at some point. It's simply a gross misdirection of hatred towards an entire populace. A lot of Japanese that were guilty only of being citizens of a fascist dictatorship were mercilessly killed in American fire and nuclear bombings, yet I have never heard a Japanese in online discussions or in person use any slur to refer to Americans.
I also see the one argument that we call the Germans "Nazis" today so it's okay. This is a false equivalency, Nazism is a political ideology, not an ethnic group. If someone in any formal text or documentary referred to the Germans in WWII as the "Krauts" it would sound extremely unprofessional. If you want to come up with a slang term for the fascist/monarchistic/imperialistic system in Imperial Japan then be my guest. But "Jap" is not an acceptable candidate for it.
As for the ammunition, in Japanese it is referred to as Type 99 rifle ammunition, Type 38 rifle ammunition, Type 99 MG ammunition, etc. We usually reserve calling ammo by caliber for more modern weapons. The "Jap" in the name is definitely not something from the Japanese designation as far as I know.

 

As for the ammunition, in Japanese it is referred to as Type 99 rifle ammunition, Type 38 rifle ammunition, Type 99 MG ammunition, etc. We usually reserve calling ammo by caliber for more modern weapons. The "Jap" in the name is definitely not something from the Japanese designation as far as I know.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

This is something I've been gently trying to address in the collecting community across the many forums I browse, so it's nice to see an "official statement", so to speak.

My grandfather saw the worst of it, and until the day he took his life he referred to the Japanese as "Japs". He wouldn't buy anything Japanese, and would supposedly turn the television off if he saw anyone of asian descent. He strongly believed that we should have put the entire Japanese population on Saipan (one of his "hell holes") and drop as many nukes as we could create.

I couldn't blame him if he was still alive today and still called them "Japs". But luckily, thankfully, for his sacrifice I have never been asked to do the same for my country, so I have no reason to perpetuate the term and semi-frequently discourage others from doing so.

At this time, I am only as old as he was the day he landed on Iwo Jima for the first time - 24. But in my short few years, I've been blessed with having friends and coworkers from all parts of the globe, several from Japan. I only managed to talk to two intimately enough for such a topic to come up, but both confided that they felt the term was antiquated, degrading, and in the words of one of them "childish and hurtful". And that's more than enough reason for me to not use it.

It's not political correctness, it's politeness.

 

There are a lot of informal slang and contractions such as Canucks, Aussies, Krauts, Poles, Scots, Danes, Nips, Japs, Frenchies, Kiwis, Jews, Turks, Brits, Swedes, Thais, Yanks, Ruskies, etc,
Many are routinely used in the firearm collecting community.

In all sincerity, does the contraction “ Nips” for the word Nippon & Nipponese also now have the same intensity of being unacceptable?

Is it because Nip was used negatively against members of a hostile nation during a period of wartime, much like the word “Krauts”?

-Or is it more due to forced internment ( imprisonment) of Japanese-Americans and loss of property ( dirty Japs) as mentioned in an earlier post?
The terms I’m sure pre-date WW2.

My heritage is Slavic, emigrated to escape the Astro-Hungarian Empire in 1880, from what is now the Czech Republic. Yet commonly referred to as Bohemians or Bohunks, sometimes without respect or affection. My dad grew up speaking Czech and was spanked in school if caught speaking it.
The term “Bohunk” is seldom used by other Americans of Czech heritage.

Yet there is no intense and repulsive feeling of “ racism” when it’s used.

Perhaps because there were no govt sanctioned race based punitive actions like there were against other nationalities

 

I stay out of this stuff for a reason, but for crying out loud. If the term Jap is used as an intentional slur, of course it’s wrong...but it’s just as wrong for someone to get offended when the term is used as shorthand for describing their nationality (like we do for other nats). For crying out loud, we’re adults and don’t need constant policing and being told that “people get offended” by more words. Where does it all end? 🙄

 

This is both enlightening and interesting but I will take issue with some of the statements regarding “racism”.

If the term Jap is deemed offensive to some, a reasonable and honest opinion, then I would tend not to use it out of a desire not to offend someone who has not incurred my ire.

My issue is when it is called racist. Would someone who feels this way please explain how such a term is racist while calling a Frenchman a Frog, a German a Hun, a Russian a Ruskie is not? There are slurs that relate to racial characteristics but in the above cases ( including that for Japanese) there are no characteristics referenced. One may argue, as has been done, that it is an offensive term but throwing around the appellation of racist seems wrong. Accusing someone of using racist terms should be done with great thought, alas today it is frequently the first card pulled.

 

👍

 

I have a very hard time with folks deciding that a word used by other folks must inevitably be perceived as racist by a certain third group. Most Japs I’ve met (I always call them Japanese myself, but I’m being a bit persnickety tonight) wouldn’t give a flying fig, and call us (and every other nationality or ethnicity of Asian) all sorts of things among themselves. At least those of older generations do. A proportion of, especially, younger folks of every race enjoy being offended and finding reasons to be such. They probably aren’t calling anyone anything except racists or “fascists,” but I digress. Being married to an Asian I’m more than passingly familiar with the cultures in the Far East. I have a very hard time believing that A) there are sensible and erudite Japanese collectors who say “I want nothing to do with those American and Commonwealth guys because I saw someone write “jap” once in a discussion of WW2 -they must all be racist and will dislike me.” I have an equally hard time believing that in 2021 anyone who uses that term does so in a truly pejorative way.

But, as someone said, it is eminently historically correct to call the enemy combatants of WW2 “Japs,” just as the Germans were Krauts or Jerries, and I believe the Germans called us “Amis.” And doubtless said the same bull*** about our want of fighting prowess, lack of martial ardor, abilities in bed with the fairer sex, etc etc that we said about them. It was a war, and they were the enemy. My father, a WW2 veteran, called them Japs to his dying day, and was not exactly thrilled to own Japanese products. He refused to even consider purchasing a Japanese brand car, and only consented to own a Volkswagen because my mom begged. He called it a “Nazi footlocker.”

When I use the word Jap, generally just in reference to caliber, I do so to honor the memory of all our American forebearers, whose experiences in the war led them to use that turn of phrase. If they saw fit to call it “7.7 Jap” in everyday speech, far be it from me to decide it ought to be called something else.

 

I propose that terms such as "7.7 Jap" and "Jap Lewis" and so forth be written as "7.7 Jpn" and "Jpn Lewis". Of course these could still be pronounced in the offending manner. But in writing they would meet the gunboard's new wokeness policy.

On a similar note. During a beer session in Mexico with several Mexican cousins of mine the conversation topic went to offensive terms Americans and Mexicans call one another. I did not find any of their terms for me the least bit offensive. I pulled out all stops and was not able to offend any of them.

So is the term "Jap" really more offensive to sensitive Anglo Americans?

 

As a Japanese American, this is news to me. I have never considered "Jap" a racist term, I've never heard it used in a racist context, even in old ww2 film reals and whatnot i just considered "Jap" to be an abbreviation. In the same way we all say "I live in America" instead of "I live in The United States of America". Being that its new years, I was able to ask the rest of my family, who are also all Japanese or Japanese Americans, what they think of this. None of them knew what I was talking about, and one of them is now making jokes about it and me. So thanks for that.

Can you white people stop being offended over stuff that doesnt affect you please? Just calm down.

 

As a Japanese American, this is news to me. I have never considered "Jap" a racist term, I've never heard it used in a racist context, even in old ww2 film reals and whatnot i just considered "Jap" to be an abbreviation. In the same way we all say "I live in America" instead of "I live in The United States of America". Being that its new years, I was able to ask the rest of my family, who are also all Japanese or Japanese Americans, what they think of this. None of them knew what I was talking about, and one of them is now making jokes about it and me. So thanks for that.

Can you white people stop being offended over shit that doesnt affect you please? Just calm down.

I’m surprised by that—when did your family come to the States? Hopefully the term is so archaic that it’s losing its power…..that would be a good thing.

Or maybe it’s West Coast—East Coast thing? “Jap” or “Nip” are definitely fighting words for native-born American Asians (not just Japanese-descended) on the West Coast.

 

I would like to make something clear here. This is not a new ruling. It is part of the forum rules set down here in 2003. And thought it was time to bring them to the forefront after seeing some posts using the term.

Please read them. I will start deleting any posts by the poster in their entirety if I see the term used going forward no matter what kind of informational golden nuggets are contained therein.

Forum Rules- Please Read!

Author Topic kfields (and ratified by current membership and moderators 03man and BradB) First Posted - 08/29/2003 : 2:02:05 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi guys. Just some basic etiquette rules: 1) No Wanted To Buy (WTB) Wanted To...

www.gunboards.com

 

Oh for Pete's sake....This is the lack of sensibility I was talking about.

edit to add: I get that you're enforcing rules, that's commendable and important. But the fact that this is even being discussed is absurd, as is the modern fixation on being offended by every jot and tittle. Be sensible.

 

I tend to use a one syllable word instead of three syllables , which has the same meaning. No intent expect simplicity. I could care less if someone is offended.They have a problem, and should chill out.

 

Curly,

you are the moderator but the idea of throwing away information because someone may be offended by the package, well ……

 

Since Jap is a contraction of Japanese, in any reasonable context why should it be a problem.
If so, please don't come to Australia or you will be offended. Generations of immigrants have had generic labels generously applied.

 

gunboards is owned by someone other than us. they make the rules. if we don't like them we can go somewhere else. it is sad to me a basic thing of courtesy and respect is so hard to abide by. I had several family members serve and if they wanted to use the term when they were alive ok they earned that right I did not. to attack Curly for doing his job is absurd. when you are in someone's house you go by their rules. be real guys it is just 5 more letters you can do it.it might seem silly that an abbreviated word is offensive but it is not our place to say.

 

Agree....All the forum is doing is asking people to wipe their shoes off at the door.....Bodes

 

So gunboards is letting the tentacles of woke leftist commie subversion and racial quackery in the door. Nice!

 

As per Vic back in the early 2010's ... "The purpose of these forums as we founded them almost 20 years ago was to facilitate communication and a sharing of knowledge from members globally in a real time basis. It is a private forum meaning you apply for membership and are either accepted or rejected. It is not a boxing ring or mud slinging pit. It never has been. Never will be. Don't like somebody use the ignore feature or don't comment. If you do then be civil. If that becomes a problem then your membership here comes into question. Being a member of Gunboards is not a right- it is a privilege granted and that permission can just as easily be revoked. Treat each other with respect. Your guests in my house. Become an unwanted guest and you'll be shown the door. I protect your rights and or privileges here as do every moderator who volunteers their effort for us. Don't abuse that."

This board is owned by Second Media Corp, part of the Carbon Media Group, they have asked us moderators and administrators to set up and review the rules for the boards and different forums.
I can see when referring to historical texts of the period to the usage of the term 'Jap' as that is what they used at that time as well as other names but not when you are making a non-historical type of post, how hard is it to write out the word Japanese, not difficult at all.

Patrick

 

how hard is it to write out the word Japanese, not difficult at all.

Patrick

Many people here seem to be highly adverse to small change, but are willing to give up the site entirely for that small, needed change. I will never understand that mentality, much easier to follow the simple rules than to throw a tantrum and stop participating all together. I don't think it's so much to do with "woke culture" as it is trying to cultivate an environment where anyone can contribute without derogatory terms for their ethnicity being needlessly used.

 

I believe part of the reason why some don't see a problem with the term while others do is the result of your local culture and upbringing. Certain words have different meanings within different groups of people, which sometimes can cause confusion or a misunderstanding.

I'm Mexican, and was raised in California. Year's ago I spent some time in Georgia. In the whole of the country the phrase, "white powder" is generally seen as racist. Not so, to some in the south. To some, the phrase, " brown pride" is racist but its not. To fully explain why and why its not a double standard would take too long.

In short, words hold different meanings to different groups. As a child I was often told that it's not what you say but how you say it that determines its meaning. I hope this helps explain things a little better.

 

I do not use the term and I won’t but people get extremely tired of being told to alter their speech because someone may be “offended”. Indeed those same people are probably “offended” when told this but that is OK.

My issue, which no one has been able to answer is why the appellation of “racist” and why, in God’s name, information would be deleted because someone did not like the package. Some of the info on these pages is available nowhere else and should never be deleted to assuage someone’s perceived “ hurt”.

 

I would like to participate quickly on this subject. As a foreigner, many negative labels are stuck on us, some of which are unbearable. I think the basis for an intelligent discussion between adults should be respect and tolerance , on both sides.

Anyways , i wish you a Happy New Year 2022, good health and prosperity..


yann