More pictures #1.

 

More pictures #2.

 

More pictures #3.

 

Congrats @CH that is an incredible find! Please share the findings of @Mangrove regarding this rifle if you get the chance.

 

For what is currently known, it seems this carbine was converted before October 1921 as, like Mangrove puts it, this serial number can't be found from listings of "newer" carbine conversions made after this date. According to Hersalo's book the Suojeluskuntain Asepaja, predecessor of SAKO, was established in November 1, 1919 and was located in Helsinki, in old ramshackle brewery building. During the year 1920, the book reports, the workshop converted about 2000 carbines from m/91 rifles with bulged muzzle.

This "Siestarjoki, 1917, 92501, S50279" appears for the first time, as known so far, in the report of activites of the Kyminlaakso (later Kymenlaakso) Civil Guard district master armorer, dated November 1921. The gun belonged to the Kymintehtaat (Kymi paper mill) Civil Guard. According to the report, the master armorer held gun inspection in this particular CG in November 5, 1921. Earlier this year the SY had ordered all "not privately owned" rifles to be marked with newly introduced "S number" system. The number was added to the buttstock. The SY had also ordered the S numbering procedure to take place simultaneously with the gun inspection. According to Mangrove, the S numbering of this carbine must have occurred in November 5, since no rifles from the Kymintehtaat CG were inspected earlier this year. The 1921 report does not, yet however, comment whether the guns inspected were in rifle or carbine length, although it includes several other guns, later identified as carbines. The "huomautuksia" (comments) field simply states that the "Siestarjoki, 1917, 92501, S50279" was "leimattu" (marked with S number) and "hyvin hoidettu" (well cared, maintenance-wise).

Next time the "Siestarjoki, 1917, 92501, S50279" appears in the report of activites of the Kyminlaakso Civil Guard district master armorer, dated January 1923. Now Mangrove was able to pinpoint that the gun belonged to the CG unit in the Voikkaa paper mill of the Kymintehtaat Civil Guard. In late 1921 the SY had ordered the master armorers to stamp all the 3 line rifles with metric graduations but tools for this job weren't delivered until 1922. The Kyminlaakso master armorer's report says that gun inspection in the Voikkaa mill took place between January 29-31, 1923. Then he says this: "Kaikki tarkastetut 3-linj. kiv. ovat samalla leimatut metri-järjestelmälle" (all 3 line rifles inspected were stamped to the metric system).

Finally, the bottom line. A comment field regarding "Siestarjoki, 1917, 92501, S50279" states "karab. hoidettu hyvin" (carbine, well cared).

 

Interesting rifle. We have one that is the same mfg with a different date. Not as interesting as your though!

 

Now that is cool! I’m also curious to hear the research findings on it.

 

So many cool one of one (basically) rifles showing up lately! I didn't even know something like this could exist! If I saw this in a shop I probably would be thinking that Bubba hacked up a really nice M/91 and pass it by.

 

I think a few rifles like this have popped up and were considered bubba jobs (peoples opinions). That front sight would lead many (including me) to believe this was bubbad.

 

Never seen before. This is great.
Thanks for photo Essay.

 

They are all very suspect unless they have verified records in Finnish archives. If this rifle were in the US, it would definitely be considered a bubba job without provenance.

 

Nifty

 

Out of curiosity can you supply the dimensions, barrel length, etc?

 

Total length is virtually identical to, say, m/38 carbine. I'd say it's within tolerance of standard production carbines. For example, when compared to this 1941 Izhevsk, the S50279 is about 5mm shorter while length from buttplate to front face of the receiver is exactly the same.

Supposedly the Civil Guard used Russian m/07 carbine as sort of example when determining barrel length for their carbines.

 

That last document appears to seal it. Very nice! First one I think we've seen posted here with documentation to support the claim.

 

Since I'm not an Imperial m/91 specialist, could someone identify the magazine floorplate renumbering? Did they do that during the WW1 period already? As to floorplate's overall appearance, its color of bluing, rust spots and degree of attic dust, sawdust, pollen, whatever...match quite perfectly the magazine body as well as rest of the gun.

 

I’ve these on some WW1 dated Imperial m/91s. I think they were rifles that were quickly refurbished at Tula and Sestroryetsk and returned to service in 1917.

 

Thanks for the additional photos, this is a very nice piece!

This thread alone shows the value of the research work done by Martti and others in the Finnish National Archives. Without it, there would be know way to prove this rifle was a real Ulaani Civil Guard carbine.

 

Indeed. The documents that Mangrove provided are like a fulfilled prophecy. Everything that has been recorded about this carbine seems to match the physical gun. My biggest surprise is most definitely the rear sight metric graduations and its documentation. I know that for years I have warned others about carbines with metric markings and now I taste my own medicine. Oh, the irony.

Ballistically the metric markings have no real use in a carbine as bullet trajectory does not match to that of full length rifle barrel. I suppose the master armorer simply had to comply with the SY bureaucracy here. Niilo Hersalo's book "Suojeluskuntain Historia II" page 186 gives a perfect example of the athmosphere. The SY annual report from 1922 compains about lazy master armorers stating that by the end of 1922 there were still CG rifles out there without S numbers stamped (on buttstock, I presume) and that only rifles of Pohjois-Uusimaa district had reportedly been all properly marked with metric graduations.

I wonder if Mangrove has found any documentation regarding possible early Finnish manufacture of blued sling slot escutcheons? These don't seem like Russian escutcheons and I suppose Germany/Austria didn't manufacture those either during WW1? In Palokangas' book there is a small picture of a Civil Guard m/91 carbine with S number S22143 (Varsinais-Suomi) in Sotamuseo collection. While the picture is really small the escutcheons of this carbine seem blued (?) as well.

 

Just thought to take "a few" more pictures of this carbine under natural illumination. After all, the Civil Guard m/91 carbine is perhaps the very first Finnish Mosin-Nagant conversion.

Well, Suomen Ampumatarvetehdas produced its first m/91 rifle barrels in about 1920 so one could say that SATs are just as early but, due to long service life of the m/91 rifle, most of the SAT rifles have lost their original early 1920s features, more or less.

One good thing about the m/91 carbines is that they were pretty much phased out before later overhauls took place.

 

More pictures.

 

Even more.

 

Amazing rifle. Thank you again for sharing.

 

Awesome carbine, thanks for sharing!