How is the barell ring inner diameter? b.r.Andy

 

To clarify AndyB's question - what is the muzzle ring bore (the inside diameter of the hole for the muzzle)? If it's 18mm, then this is indeed an FN-49 bayo. If the muzzle ring bore is 15.5mm, then it's a Mauser bayo.

Then, if it's an FN-49 bayo, check the serial number on the end of the pommel - it should be from 1 - 8000 if it's a Venezuelan. (Indonesia also used this 1924/49 long bayo but it's highly unlikely any of those have made it to the U.S.)

If it's confirmed to be a Venezuelan FN-49 bayo, then on to pricing. As you noticed, these don't show up on the auction sites too often nowadays. And, I've noticed what looks like a softening in FN-49 bayonet prices lately. When I did see these for sale a few years ago, they could bring $100 to $150. Can't say what they would bring nowadays...

 

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Should be called the FN M1924 long bayonet made for postwar Venezuelan rifle. FN1949 bayonets looks different. b.r.Andy

 

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You are incorrect, these bayonets are hard enough to research, why add more confusion to someone who may come across this thread while doing a search and then reading your comment that the pictured bayonet is not for the Venezuelan FN49?

I didn’t ask for conformation on the identity of the bayonet, but since it seems that it’s really important I’ll reply to the questioning...
The inside diameter of the ring is a little over 18mm and the serial number is in the 6000’s.

Venezuela used a modified 1924 Mauser bayonet for their FN49, its unique to the Venezuelan FN49.

This is unless you want to say I’m reading Mr. Cobb’s website incorrectly:
http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Venezuela/venezuela_2.html

No disrespect intended, but many people misidentify the long bayonets which is why the questions were asked.

Regarding Mr. Cobb's web site, unfortunately there are several errors. First, I have to mention that I'm the author of the book The FN-49 - The Last Elegant Old-World Military Rifle. The FN-49 bayonet coverage in my book is more extensive than any bayonet-specific book or web site.

In the case of the Venezuelan listing on Cobb's site:

1. The Venezuelan contract rifles were not "produced by FN for Venezuela in 1950" - they were ordered by Venezuela in 1948 with first deliveries scheduled for May 1949.

2. The statement "Venezuela felt the Belgian M1949 knife bayonet was too short and opted for a modification of the old Belgian M1924 Mauser Export bayonet instead" is incorrect. Venezuela was the first customer for the FN-49 and specifically chose the 1924/49 bayonet. The short (9"/230mm) M1949 bayonet was not offered until later when the SECOND customer, Egypt, specifically put in their contract with FN a request for a short bayonet - the M1949 was developed in response to that request (and was eventually adopted by 6 of the 9 major FN-49 customers).

3. The statement "The Venezuela M1924/49 bayonet is historically significant as the last sword bayonet adopted by a major army" is incorrect. As mentioned in a previous post, Indonesia also selected the M1924/49 and placed their first production order on February 12, 1951, with deliveries starting in March 1952.

Not that this makes any difference in establishing a price for your Venezuelan M1924/49 bayonet...but it does provide factual information about this bayonet.

 

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So the picture and dimensions shown on the Cobb site are not correct?

Because that picture sure looks like my bayonet and the dimensions listed sure match up to mine.

B.r.Andy says different, that my bayonet is not a Venezuelan FN49 bayonet because it looks wrong, unless I’m missing something in translation.


So, do I have a Venezuelan FN49 bayonet as I originally thought or not?

Yes - as I mentioned at the bottom of my last post, you have a Venezuelan contract M1924/49 bayonet. You confirmed it when you checked the muzzle ring bore and the serial number in the Venezuelan range. And, as I mentioned in my first post, it's highly unlikely that any Indonesian contract M1924/49 bayonets are in the United States. Your bayonet also has solid-head grip screws and clearing slots in the grips and those features are correct for the Venezuelan. So, I would say it's a 99.99% chance that it's a Ven.

Regarding the dimensions and photo on Cobb's web site - that particular information is OK. I was just pointing out the errors that are present (and didn't even address the incorrect attribution of the initialism "SAFN"). I wanted it to be clear that the M1924/49 was not unique to the Venezuelan contract and was used on another contract.

Regarding board member AndyB's comments, I can't really say where he's coming from other than perhaps he is referencing yet another incorrect bayonet source...

So, go forth and find a buyer for your Venezuelan M1924/49 bayonet. Good luck - I hope you get at least $150 for it !

 

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Yes i would tend to designation of M1924/49 too, as the design is clear M1924 long bayonet, even with larger barell ring for M1949 Venezuelan contract or for other similar contracts. I dont wrote above Venezuelan FN1949 only that "FN 1949 " looks others short blade in majority of sources. b.r.Andy

 

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Too much off topic banter in the thread.


Please continue to talk amongst yourselves.

 

I'll bet if you put it on Ebay it would sell. many more collectors eyes would see it..

I'm not trying to jack the thread. But below are a few pic's which tell the tale. I had some items out in my shop and these were in the same case so I thought I would take some pic's.

The red object is a FN-49 blank firing adapter. It's the same diameter as the Venezuelan muzzle break.

 

I'll bet if you put it on Ebay it would sell. many more collectors eyes would see it..

I'm not trying to jack the thread. But below are a few pic's which tell the tale. I had some items out in my shop and these were in the same case so I thought I would take some pic's.

The red object is a FN-49 blank firing adapter. It's the same diameter as the Venezuelan muzzle break.

Great pics Jim and an excellent example. The bayo with the BFA has the 18mm muzzle ring bore and a serial number in the Venezuelan FN-49 range. The other, at first glance identical in appearace to the first, has the 15.5mm muzzle ring and a serial number outside the serial number range of FN-49s of the Indonesian or Venezuelan contracts - it's a Mauser bayonet.

 

I have a similar looking long "Mauser" bayonet to the one in post 1 except that the metalwork is blackened (paint?) and it has a muzzle ring diameter of 15.5mm. The only marking on it is a serial number on the end of the pommel which is: 3880. It was suggested as being a F.N. (export) bayonet but I wouldn't like to say that was definite.

My example is in very good condition and I paid £55 for it from a dealer/collector type chap about a year or so ago which I considered cheap.

 

As in various books VanderLinden, Ball is mentioning a some ammount of Venezuelan M1930 carbines purchased postwar and equiped with long M1924 FN bayonet, so i assume they choosed a similar bayonet on FN1949 contract to the country. b.r.Andy