Wow. A piece with provenance. That holster is awesome!

 

Skene

Alexander Peter Imlay D.S.O. & Bar Mentioned in Despatches 1885 - 1959 His remains were scattered in the "Gardens of Rest" at Kaimhill Crematorium

ww1austburialsuk.weebly.com

 

 

Very nice!

 

this is mine , brought back from France + purchased by me over 6 decades ago -

 

rmasters3
nice catch

w/provenance -
holster pictured is not the WWI French military issue as pictured in the reference books - soldier probably had it privately made - the original French holsters are much rarer then the pistols - in your pictures the loaded chamber indicator seems to be missing as is mine , very common on the French issued ones -

 

I have the Bower book, and knew the holster wasn't "issue". That said, it gives every indication of being with this pistol for a really long time.

 

It is great when you can put together the story and history of a piece like that.

Very nice,

Bob

 

And, thank you for the input gentlemen.

I have one other 1907 and had researched them when I found it. But it's been several years and I was a bit out of touch with the details. I'm in this latest one for $895 (well more than I wanted) and wouldn't have gone that high for it if the A P Imlay information hadn't surfaced. It was dumb luck--I just Googled him and was very surprised when anything turned up.

Does anyone know how many of the 00001-a, to 00050-a, serial numbered, French prototype/test pistols are known?

 

Savage records show the serial number range for the 13 shipments to France military from 1/27/1916 till 2/2/1817 was from # 124250 through # 129999 + from 150000 through # 166742 - i know of no French test pistols - the Savage factory records state that the first shipments of apx.3,400 to France in 10/1914 were in the # 110500 to # 113600 taken from regular production inventory - a special batch of 50 to 100 was made for demonstration purposes in hopes of other country military sales + these were marked with letter [ M ] - the first French delivery did not have a lanyard rings - it was a rumor back in the 50's that a few were produced for a .32 cartridge much shorter the the .32acp. - does your serial number fall into the published French contract range ? - or could it be a private purchase that was common for commonwealth officers ? - a few sent there had lower serial numbers that were older frames stored in factory stock rooms -

 

Bower's book mentions them and shows a photo of either 00023-a or 00026-a. The story as I remember it: the French ordered 50 that Savage had in stock to evaluate and requested they be drilled for a lanyard loop, which was apparently not affixed by Savage, but Savage did drill the holes.

The pistol in this thread falls in the known serial numbers of those in the French contract # 150000 through # 166742 . I thought the holster was a private purchase--I've not seen another like it.

 

Bower's book mentions them and shows a photo of either 00023-a or 00026-a. The story as I remember it: the French ordered 50 that Savage had in stock to evaluate and requested they be drilled for a lanyard loop, which was apparently not affixed by Savage, but Savage did drill the holes.

The pistol in this thread falls in the known serial numbers of those in the French contract # 150000 through # 166742 . I thought the holster was a private purchase--I've not seen another like it.

none of the Savage factory references + multiple references that I have make mention of that - multiple references state that the initial 3000 + pistols received by the French definitely did not have lanyard loops - after complaints from field about difficulty removing them from holsters they requested the loops on all subsequent deliveries - The only miltary or police organization that required samples was the contract with Portugal - the French were desperate for weapons + just placed an initial order for a known proven product -

 

WAAAAAY TOO COOL!!!!!

 

This is a very neat piece and with wonderful provenance.
That is a killer holster !!!!!

 

Congrats on a great find & acquisition. Not only a difficult to find French Contract Military 13-3 variation, but one with a very interesting provenance. Lieutenant Colonel Imlay was an impressive individual. Fascinating he entered service as 29 year old 2nd Lt. and in 3 years advanced to a Lt. Col. Battalion Commander. As you point out, an Australian fighting in France carrying an American made pistol. Very neat.

 

Rare pistol with fantastic provenance; thanks!

 

the Brower book is excellent but like many others it does contains errors + conflicts with factory , French , + some Portuguese records - try comparing multiple published references
at the time of the first order in 1914 the French were so desperate to get weapons as fast as possible they were buying anything as fast as possible without any inspection , including obsolete rolling blocks + Spanish American war surplus from Bannermans - non of my multi references based on factory records show anything about any prototype or test pistols being delivered to France at all , -

 

How to would account for Brower's 00023-a and my own?

 

all Savage historians + factory records clearly state that the serial numbers in no way reflect shipping sequence in any manner - all knowledgeable collectors + historians agree that the serial number + shipping sequence was a total aberration - some first year production serialized frames were not assembled + shipped till last year of production -
French contract reference -
{ a few sent there had lower serial numbers that were older frames stored in factory stock rooms }
indisputable + widely published explanation -

 

- some first year production serialized frames were not assembled + shipped till last year of production -

There were engineering and marking differences between First Year (second, third) frames which would make assembly in the final year quite an exercise in mechanical fitting. Perhaps within a model variant year or two, there were bottom of the bin assemblies. But I would have difficulty wrapping my mind around 3, 5, 10 or 13 year spans.

 

correct , but the changes did not involve any major retooling + were easily performed in the plant that made them - most of the changes involved the safety drum , longer ejector ,feed ramp , + barrel groove , all easily performed on existing frames - many more cosmetic changes then mechanical - the slides with different style serrations are interchangeable on all frames -

 

Not sure how they would use tools to make the feedramp wider and longer (narrow and short feedramp, 1907-1912). Again, I think that some out of sequence serial numbering existed from within a model year. But a 1907 to 1912 frame would not work for anything later in production, 1913 to 1920.

 

later parts on early ramp work perfectly + pistol still functions properly - personally built over a dozen when Sarco was selling complete .32acp Savage parts kits - only one gave me a problem + i learned that it was a first year of production barrel - kits were sold by them in 1980 + 1982 + frames had wide range of serial numbers from early to late ---