Could you be more specific about the ammo...grain weight of bullet and type of bullet?

The S&B site has good info...

https://www.sellierbellot.us/products/rifle-ammunition/list/647/

It does seem a bit on the hot side but it may be OK??

 

Yes, they are 140 grain FMJs.

 

OK...

https://www.sellierbellot.us/products/rifle-ammunition/rifle-ammunition-fmj/detail/172/

I actually think you would be safe to use this ammunition. 2,582 fps out the muzzle seems a bit hot but not TOO hot. Please note that the figures provided by S&B are those particular to a 23 1/2 inch barrel.

I hope others will be along to let you know what they think.

Have a look at this thread...

https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1110919-6-5x55-SE

He opted to pull the bullets and, I guess, safe is always best!!

 

Thank you, Tim.

Lesson learned. "DON'T BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT PROPER DUE DILIGENCE !"

That's why we have forums and boards.

 

FYI,

I have contacted S&B (USA). Their response was that "the load is developed for pressures of the M96 and M38 for rifles that are in good condition".

I have shot PPU ammo with no issues.

 

I've fired several boxes of S&B Swedish Mauser 6.5 x 55mm 140 grain ammo in my M96 Mauser rifle with NO harmful effects to myself or the rifle. I've been hand loading the brass cases using IMR 4064 powder and 140 grain 6.5 mm bullets to comparable ballistics as the S&B factory ammo . My hand loads give me sub MOA groups at 100 yds. and are pleasant to shoot. The M96 Mauser is the most accurate rifle I own.

 

All;

Istarted a thread recently about SE ammo, produced by SAKO.
On the box was a warning to Not use it in the Swedish Mauser.
Also Lapua say do not use this ammo in the S-Mauser, only in new actions.

This from Lapua;

6,5 x 55 SE / 6,5 x 55 SKANTest barrel: Sauer STR 200
Primers: Large Rifle
Cases: Lapua, trim-to length 54,80 mm (2.157”)
WARNING: This reloading data is intended to use at modern rifles in good condition such as Sauer, Sako or Blaser chambered to 6,5 x 55 SKAN or 6,5 x 55 SE WARNING: DO NOT USE with Krag-Jörgensen, Mauser M1896 or similar rifles. This data has max loads set at pressure of 380 MPa! NOTE: Data contains velocity information for standard barrel lengths of Sauer STR200 rifles.

Nothing wrong at all with regular 6.5 x 55 ammo of course, like Big Coulee says.

Best,
Richard.

 

I agree with those above who say that caution is a good thing. Seems to be no problem with down-loading those SKAN cartridges.
But as I look at Hodgdon's reloading site, I see many loads in the 2600s with pressures around 45-46K CUP. There is a load for minimum charge weight that advertises as 2500 fps and a max of 2650 using IMR 4955.
So it is conceivable that velocities of 2550-2575 fps using this powder and the 24 inch barrel of your M38 would be a fairly safe bet.
My Powley Computer says that a 140g bullet traveling 2735 fps from the muzzle generates 46K CUP (52K psi), while at 2650 fps, the pressure is 43K CUP, or 49K psi.That sight uses IMR powders for its measurements...4831 and 4350 in this case.
But of course, we have no idea which powder those SKAN loads are loaded with.
This subject ultimately devolves into a discussion of what we all believe are safe pressures in 100 year old rifles. But heck, why take chances....you're families would very badly miss you if something went wrong...

 

You're fine with the S&B ammo.

My handload does 2590 fps out of an M38 and 2650 fps out of an M96. I use 44.7gr of RL-23. It's about the same burn rate as 4831. It matches the sight calibration dead-on out to 600 yards (550 meters).

Swedish Mausers do good with slower powders that produce a gradual burn along the entire length of barrel. You get good velocity with less chamber pressure.

The reason why I don't like loading hot for a Mauser is barrel life. Smaller diameter cartridges erode rifling faster. I presume that the military recognized the same issue with barrel life and thus moderated their loads accordingly.

But you won't blow the action. The notion that Swedish Mausers are weak actions is a myth that keeps getting repeated over and over again.

 

I have loaded a batch with the Nosler 140 gr CC over the same 44.7 gr Rel 23 charge you mentioned earlier. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of my autumn sinus/allergy festival and can't exploit the return of good range weather to A/B test my Rel 22 and Rel 23 loads.

Regarding S&B ammo, I find it shoots very well but the brass is next to useless for reloading. Some other reloaders recommend annealing the S&B brass. However, I've gotten reports from an experienced and competent shooter/reloader that S&B 6.5 Creedmoor brass is good for reloading.

 

S&B 140gr SE FMJ fired from an M96 (1901 mfg). Definitely somewhat stiff compared to PPU but not excessive. Case extraction was fine. Accuracy was exceptional. Primers were a little flat and slightly backed out... not flattened though (remember this is 118 year old headspace).

I’m a fan. Definitely better than PPU

 

View attachment 3516277 View attachment 3516279 View attachment 3516281 View attachment 3516283

S&B 140gr SE FMJ fired from an M96 (1901 mfg). Definitely somewhat stiff compared to PPU but not excessive. Case extraction was fine. Accuracy was exceptional. Primers were a little flat and slightly backed out... not flattened though (remember this is 118 year old headspace).

I’m a fan. Definitely better than PPU

 

Thanks for the input.

I am confident that my M96 and M38 are in good enough condition to give the S&B SEs a try.

 

Ritterbruder's comment in post # 10 is very sensible and correct. there are lots of the Swede milsurps in my area, and lots of dumb hand-loaders/shooters as well. i'm talking about the people that can't resist adding two or three more grains of powder to the listed max loads in the manuals. over 35 to 40 years of buying, owning, and looking at scores of these rifles, i cannot recall ever seeing one that had a problem, or was being parted out. these firearms are very well-made items of quality.

 

Never the less I'd hate to be the first one to find out the hard way. I've read that caution too many times about Krags and Swedish Mausers. I find IMR 7828 at near it's recommended minimum of 44.0 grains on a 140 grain Barnes Match Burner or Sierra Match King out of an m/96 or m/41 to be a very accurate load out to 700 yards.

 

European ammo manufacturers load properly to not exceed proof. US loads for liability.

 

As has been discussed here before, there is probably a greater danger resulting from undercharging. Since slow powder like Rel 22 is popular among 6.5x55 reloders, the hazard results from low charge density. This is known as SEE - secondary explosion effect - and you avoid it by keeping to 90% or more case fill.

 

I am interested in the pictures in #12 and would like forum members suggestions.

Last weekend we held our classic rifle shoot and I used my best load so far in my Swede: 41.3grains of Swiss RS60 firing Sierra Matchking 140g HPBT with an OAL of 75.6mm (2.98"). This gives a velocit of 2583 fps and a 2 minute group out to 600 yards.

My observation is that I also had a number of cases where the primer was protuding after firing. My take on this is that this is a sign of LOW pressure.
On firing, the ignition of the primer drives the case forward to contact the shoulder, and the primer expands backwards to touch the bolt face. As the powder burns, and pressure increases, the case wall expands to grip the chamber and the head of the case then expands backwards to touch the boltface, thereby pushing the primer back into its pocket.

If the primer is still protruding I believe that the case has not expanded as much as should have due to a lack of pressure.

In my next outing I plan to test loads of 41.5g.

 

I believe you are correct Dave. Low pressure.

 

Another possibility: S&B brass tends to have shallower primer pockets than other manufacturers' ammo. I found S&B .303 and 7.62x54R brass would not let me seat a standard primer to below flush, as is the desired norm. At best, the primers - WLR and CCI 200 - were absolutely flush with the base. I shot these loads by being hyper gentle with chambering and closing the bolt.

So, I suspect the OP's S&B brass has the same shallow primer pockets, and of course this means less "grab" friction on the primer.

 

A possibility with reloads. But all my rounds were seated flush or below. I often let my cases sit on the table and anything that wobbles gets the primer seating fixed. The ammunition gets used in shooting rapids and I don't want to get upset half way through!

 

After seating primers in each of my S&B 6.5x55mm cases (and all my hand loaded cases for that matter) I run my thumb nail over the case head to make sure there are no high primers above the case head. Anything that even feels slightly high gets an extra push on the primer arm. My Swede M96 is the most accurate rifle (sub MOA) I own with my hand loads using 140 grain bullets and IMR 4064 powder. I was extremely fortunate to pick up this excellent rifle for $125 some years ago.

 

I'm in that same era...$125.00 for a "top notch" Swede...can't fathom more than $500.00 for any milsurp. More like "minty" Enfields for $40.00. I'm Canadian.

I can't understand a Savage Model 24 (.22/20gauge) selling for more than $300.00. I bought in at $29.99! Best gun I EVER had.

I bought in on the floor and see only soaring "values"...an artisinal loaf of bread is in excess of $7.00 at any Farmer's Market and that's a STRONG position!! I buy in at $2.00, after there has been a markdown. Does that mean I'm cheap??

I haven't proven to be a connoisseur or a shooter; but this group has been a godsend, with information and counseling.

Thanks to all, Tim.

 

timmct ---- I too can't fathom more than $500 for any milsurp. But I've seen lugers, broom handles and p.38's that I just couldn't resist for more than $500. I've picked up three M1 Carbines over the years. The first one is a Std. Prod. for $75, the second one is an Inland Motors Div. with two non-original parts for $150 and the third is an Underwood in almost unfired pristine condition for $1200. The Underwood has had one 15 round mag. fired through it nearly 25 years ago and hasn't been fired since. It came with five 30 round mags., twenty 15 round mags. and 500 rounds of carbine ammo. My shooter carbine is the Inland Motors piece that functions very well with its replacement stock and recoil spring. I do like the milsurp's.

 

I also had problems with the Seller and Bellot 6.5 x 55 SE in my M96.

I had this deep primer strike and it set the firing pin back into the bolt shroud and did damage to the firing pin.
Luckily , that was it . I did notice it was slightly hotter than the ppu 139 g I was using before that.

 

Weocome to the Forum . Your firing pin hole looks very deep in the photo . Have you checked the firing pin protrusion ? It should be 1.2 m/m to 1.4 m/m , or .047" to .051" . You can buy a gauge from Numrich , but digital calipers can do the job . Did you replace firing pin ?

Firing Pin Protrusion Gage, Unissued In Original Military Storage Can

MAUSER 96 SWEDISH, 94 SWEDISH, 96/38 SWEDISH Firing Pin Protrusion Gage, Unissued In Original Military Storage Can

www.gunpartscorp.com

A lot of the modern ammo is to hot for the Swedish Mauser . Swedish m/41 factory loads have a muzzle velocity of 2592 fps in a m/96 , 2510 fps in a m/38 and 2362 fps in a m/94 .

 

i did not replace the firing pin , it is an all numbers matching rifle. Here is the 139g PPU ammo i was running the same day just before i used the S n B

 

You don't have to have matching parts to shoot your rifle . I think over pressure ! You need to check the lugs on the bolt for cracks and the receiver where the lugs are riding inside . I have seen one receiver that was cracked through to the outside where you could see it . They make a solution that shows up cracks , but I do not know where to buy it . Maybe search the internet or post a question on the " Workbench Forum " ? I would get a new firing pin and spring if there are no cracks just to start from scratch . Check the headspace as well . Check the MV on the box of S&B ammo & compare to the PPU ammo ? Be careful !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Here is a link to Magna-flux , used for checking cracks , leaks , etc . Very expensive . A gunsmith may have it & do a test for you if needed ?

Magnaflux Spotcheck SKL-SP2 Penetrant

Solvent Removable Visible Penetrant Experience the reliability and efficiency of a solvent removable penetrant designed for portability, especially in welding .

www.ndtsupplies.com