If it's a "Blue State' you can pretty much assume there would be a problem.
Jim

 

That is incorrect and I honestly think thats how OP came up with his list. Listed every blue state, but seems he forgot about Rhode Island and Delaware. Must have figured Vermont is ok since they always had Constitutional Carry. I believe they all consider an Antique and antique. Other than the ones I mentioned. Replicas are a different story.

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You're very wrong about MA. I've been using my 03 to get guns shipped to me, legally, for years.

There is a de facto registration requirement once it gets here, but that's on the buyer. In sum, there's no reason at all to be frightened of shipping to MA, despite its many flaws.

Ask for a copy of the C&R and of the buyer's LTC, and ship happily.

 

2P Steel 6,

What you say about C&R sounds reasonable. However, as I understand it, something like an 1891 Argentine Mauser long file (Ludwig Loewe) that is a BATF antique is not considered an antique by MA due to the center fire cartridge. So, while it would be OK in most states to ship that on a Driver's License, in MA it would require a C&R. Does that sound correct?

Good point about the LTC. That had not occurred to me.

Thanks for responding.

 

Here's the Quick N' Dirty Guide to selling to California:

Antiques: You can ship an antique DIRECTLY to a California resident with just a photocopy of a DL. California uses the Federal definition of antique long guns just like most of the rest of the country.

I'll stick to C&R eligible long guns for clarity here. A California resident needs to have a C&R FFL and a California COE (Certificate of Eligibility) to have C&R long guns shipped directly to them from out of state. With both of those valid documents, you are good to go, and the out of state seller is in no way obligated to register with California DOJ to sell that type of firearm to a California resident. Once received, the California resident has to fill out a pretty simple record noting the rifle's aspects (barrel length, type, country of origin, et al.) and submit the form to the CalDOJ. The burden is actually on the buyer, NOT the seller. Privately owned, non-C&R holders from out of state can sell in this way to California C&R's.

That's all there is to it for you. As noted, the buyer in California has more to do to record the sale than an out-of-state seller has to do to get it there. There are a lot of rumors out there about what can and can't be sent to California and under what terms, and most of that talk is flat-out wrong. Pistols and non-C&R long guns are a completely different story, but that's the get-down on C&R long guns.

Pat

 

Bang-on Pat. The (California) buyer has to submit said form to DOJ with, you guessed it, money. That aside, pretty much all the basic C&R rules set forth in federal law are the same here. Didn't used to be for the record, but one of the other asinine gun bills they passed a few years ago had the side-effect of making C&R easier to deal with here. Another one a year or two later kinda ruined it for non-03 holders but that's California for you.

 

Pat,

Thanks for the detailed description of the California process.

 

What is an LTC?

 

That is a pistol permit (license to carry). Some states require license for almost everything.

MA even makes it illegal to have an empty brass cartridge (ammunition) without a license.

 

Ah, we call that a Concealed Handgun License.

 

I think that list is very incorrect. Hopefully others can chime in, but as far as I know only NJ, HI, NYC, and DC is an Antique not an Antique. Maybe all of NY since safe act.

NJ does not recognize C&R License all firearms must be sent to FFL01 from out of state for transfer.

In state NJ Resident to NJ Resident is completely different. We can even transfer modern handguns person to person without an FFL, but buyer must have an Active Permit to Purchase and can still only buy one handgun per month. Longguns buyer just needs a Firearms ID. No NICS check for person to person.

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You can take Michigan off your list. An antique can be sent to a Michigan resident with an FFL not being required. (Yes, even if it's a center fire rifle)

 

Yup, and a C&R can go directly to an 03.

 

Thanks everyone for helping to educate me.

I got the original list from a Gun Broker listing that I saw a few months ago. I figured he knew what he was talking about, but perhaps not. My plan was to ask for input here to narrow or expand my list, then try to double check the actual statutes for questionable states.

I can see why some sellers just say C&R or FFL-01 and avoid the worrying.

Thanks again.

Joe

 

Didn't mean to bust chops so much but it sucks for those of us stuck in these states. There are already too many sellers that won't ship to CA, NJ, and elswhere. Don't need anymore running a Google search and after just reading the first post refusing to ship antique too.


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Capt14k,

No offense taken. I just want to figure this out. The laws are bad enough, but they want to make it difficult to be sure you are following them so you end up playing it safe and being more restrictive than necessary.

Massachusetts is one state I have actually researched, and a center fire cartridge antique like the 1891 Argentine Mauser (Loewe) is not an antique in MA.

Thanks.

Joe

 

I don't think you are correct about Mass. I went on Northeast Shooters and a center fire is an Antique if made before 1899 however a replica of a pre 1899 rifle is not an Antique. Unless the law changed since 2016. I know the AG changed the Assault Weapon Rules so maybe.

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No idea on antiques in MA; I've only bought two, and both times I sent my 03 and my LTC solely out of habit. Checking on Northeast Shooters might work, but the opinions there tend to be similar to what you read on GB, or what you'd hear at an LGS: lots of fact buried among lots of non-fact.

A user here, plymouthmauser, might know for sure about pre-'98s.

Thing to remember is that all the MA requirements are the responsibility of the buyer, not the seller. As a seller, you can't get jammed up no matter how our AG claims you can. She's a complete moron.

 

when in doubt, just ship to an 03 or 01 holder period and that avoids any issues. personally, the burden is always on the buyer not the seller. IF it is legal under Federal law to ship, another state can not supersede that. you still have the right to ship it. Its up to the buyer then to know the laws in their state as to what to do next once they get it and to own it. but as I started off with, to avoid doubt just only ship to an 01 or 03 holder.

 

That's what I say. Where I live, an antique is what the Feds say it is. If you buy it, I'll ship it . If you're not supposed to buy it because you live in a goofy state, well, that's your problem . I know that when I lived in Nazi-fornia, putting a pre 1899 Mauser or Winchester, centerfire out , could get you arrested because the cops don't know the law . Same with pistols. One of the reasons I moved, P

 

A C&R is a Federal License. If you use the license to purchase, you can't book it. Why? It's an antique (non weapon) as far as the BATF is concerned.

I also agree with the replica vs. antique comment. I am fairly certain that in michigan you can't purchase a replica, say 1873 center fire rifle as an antique. It must be transferred by an 01FFL.. But, a true 1873 antique is perfectly fine. I believe the Feds treat these the same, as well.

I also sent an antique to NYC and researched the city ordnance and it had to go to at least a C&R.

 

In Washington State to ship or receive you need to go through a FFL01
Plus when you receive the gun you get to pay the FFL usually a $35-40 transfer fee.
When you pass NICS you get to pay sales tax on the purchase price too!
I go the the WA arms Collector. Transfers are $10 and no sales tax and a NICS check also, no charge part of the transfer fee I guess.
They are trying to pass an assault weapons ban and almost all guns are defined as assault weapons.
Over 10 round mags are high cap mags.They want you to have a license which lists every high cap mag and assault weapon. If you sell anything then you have to update your assault weapons license.
Super pain in the ass, so far it didn't pass yet!

 

Even though I have never had anyone refuse to ship a C&R firearm to me directly (have FFL03, Initiative 594 does seem to say that.
Fortunately it was amended this year and starting next month, FFL03's will be excluded from that Initiative.

 

This whole when in doubt is BS. By using that logic you are doing the bidding of the Antis and stomping on the Second Amendment. It's just as bad as those who pass these laws.

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How about we get a correct proper list going.

Washington State is an odd one. It says all sales require a background check including online sales between unlicensed individual unless exempted by state or federal law.

Ok seems good to ship antique direct to an individual. Since Federal Law exempts Antiques. If made 1898 or early is an Antique.

It goes onto to say that the requirements of a background check doesn't apply to antiques.

However the definition of an Antique in Washington State says not designed or redesigned for rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammo unless the ammo is no long manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

What is the answer to shipping an Antique to an individual in Washington State?

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How about we get a correct proper list going.

Because we can't.

As well-intentioned as this thread is, there are many states where people just don't know, but are not afraid to spout off anyway. Case in point:

That is big time wrong! If your shipping you must know if it's legal to own the item in the State your shipping to.You have to follow Fed,ans State law.

Not from everything I've heard, read, and experienced. But presented here as fact, and I'm sure PATRON means well. The fact is that many states (and certain federal departments) intentionally write vague and contradictory laws and regs concerning firearms. Here in MA, the local cops, LGS owners, the AG's office, FRB, and licensing office will often give conflicting guidance on the same question. They're not on the same page, and the statute itself will usually say something different still.

Unless there's clear case law on any of these things, nobody really knows.

Your best bet? When you make a sale, ask the buyer and go with what they say as long as it doesn't conflict with federal law. The onus is on them, not you, to be legal in their state of residence.

 

Anyone know about Illinois? Lived here my whole life and I'm not sure. I don't care about Chicago. They have a separate set of laws. What about the rest of the state, that's semi-sane? I've never purchased anything pre 1899, so I've never worried about it. I would assume that my 03 would cover it.

 

I live in Illinois and have received C&R guns and antiques from out of state. I always offer to send a copy of my FOID card with the C&R.
We have some stupid laws.
I can receive ammo from out of state by just sending them a copy of my FOID card but can not have someone from inside Illinois ship ammo to me.

 

Any gun made prior to 1899 is not a firearm under federal law. An antique may be shipped to anywhere in the country, as well as most foreign countries, with only proof of age. This would apply to DC, NYC, Chicago or anywhere else in the US.

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That is not correct. However I was thinking what would happen to the seller if they sent an Antique Rifle to NJ Resident directly. In their state it is ok, federal it is ok, NJ it is not ok. Buyer in NJ would be screwed, but would or could NJ go after the seller in another state?

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Having to buy a COE after you have already conformed to federal law is just crazy. I have been saving up for a trip to buy C&R firearms for a while now. I will not order from out of state, I will go pick it up closeby or forgetaboutit. The COE is just another tax that the state of Ca should never be able to put on collectors along with FFL01 transfer fees.

 

Nevada has good gun laws, no problem with shipping.

 

You are right about convoluted laws. NJ is one of the worst. Federal is pretty clear about antiques. Washington State says one thing in the code itself and another in the definition. Maybe @Pahtu can answer correctly about Washington State.

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I just meant under the rule of law that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

As I also said nothing would happen to a single seller anyways. It would be the buyer's problem.

It really falls on the buyer to prove the law to the seller, but when proven seller's shouldn't have an issue.

While the laws are confusing they are all codified. It just takes some time and effort.

Dennis Kroh will only not ship Antiques to NY, NJ, HI, and DC so I would say they are good to go elsewhere. Under federal law an Antique is just that. It is not a firearm.

Also wanted to clarify personally I have no issue with shipping to an FFL01 only since that's all I can have shipped to. No C&R and no Antique Provision in NJ. It also should be noted that any Federally Legal Firearm can ship to any FFL01 in any State. It is up to the FFL01 to modify to meet state laws before transferring to customer. I just don't believe we should put further unnecessary restrictions on 2A Rights.

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I just meant under the rule of law that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Doesn't mean I agree with it.

As I also said nothing would happen to a single seller anyways. It would be the buyer's problem.

It really falls on the buyer to prove the law to the seller, but when proven seller's shouldn't have an issue.

While the laws are confusing they are all codified. It just takes some time and effort.

Dennis Kroh will only not ship Antiques to NY, NJ, HI, and DC so I would say they are good to go elsewhere. Under federal law an Antique is just that. It is not a firearm.

Also wanted to clarify personally I have no issue with shipping to an FFL01 only since that's all I can have shipped to. No C&R and no Antique Provision in NJ. It also should be noted that any Federally Legal Firearm can ship to any FFL01 in any State. It is up to the FFL01 to modify to meet state laws before transferring to customer. I just don't believe we should put further unnecessary restrictions on 2A Rights.

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This is what I'm talking about. In MA (and, no doubt, similar states with dysfunctional governments), the folks enforcing the law are often as ignorant as we are; plus, they might do what our AG did on 7/20 and arbitrarily "clarify" what she thought the statute meant. Supported by nothing in the law or precedent. So yes, it's codified, but that doesn't matter to our AG.

But, under those circumstances, the odds of a successful prosecution of an out-of-state seller are zilch. Nil. Nonexistent. So EVEN IF YOU THINK THE SELLER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR FOLLOWING THE BUYERS' LAWS, there's nothing to worry about.

But if you're still scared, think about this. A seller in GA sells to me in MA. I assert it's legal, so he ships. Unbeknownst to him, I was lying; it's illegal and the documents sent to him were forged. So I take possession, illegally, in MA.

I have now committed a crime in MA violating MA law. Even if you think the seller is somehow on the hook, nothing he did took place in MA. So if he broke MA law, he did so in GA and incurs no MA jeopardy.

Please, go ahead and ship to MA. The AG will send you a cease-and-desist letter (based on her "interpretation," not on the actual statute) if you're a big firm selling in bulk, but you should use that letter as toilet paper because she can't touch you. Violating MA law in another state is not a crime, except in our AG's mind.