Gunboards Forums banner

PLA Refurbished Mauser Model 1904?

1.7K views 16 replies 9 participants last post by  fourbore  
#1 ·
Here's an interesting rifle. The side rail has a faint Mod 1904 marking. However, the receiver has 1948 marking on top, just like 1937 on Chinese used P series VZ24. The barrel has some German markings. The stock, barrel, receiver has the same low serial number 769. The stock has a Chinese character 公 inside a star. I don’t think anyone was still making Mauser 1904 in 1948. The Chinese character 公 could be short for 公安, which means Public Security. In late 40s early 50s, Public Security force was part of Communist People’s Liberation Army PLA, that could explain why it’s in a PLA star. The PLA star has Chinese character 八 and 一 inside the star with 八 on top of 一, signified the date, August 1st, that the PLA was founded. The PLA star looks similar but slightly different than the 公 inside the star.

1948 is the year that the communists took over the 3 northeastern provinces, the former Manchuria region, which include the former warlord Zhang Zuolin's East 3 Provinces Arsenal which became Mukden Arsenal under Japanese occupation then the nationalists' Arsenal 90, before fell into the communists' hands. Likely explanation is that this Mod 1904 was being refurbished by the communists after captured Arsenal 90 when they took complete control of Northeastern region in November 1948, and then issued to the Public Security force. During the refurbish process, the original maker marking was removed and replace with 1948 refurbish year marking. Not sure if the serial number was original to the Mod 1904 when the Qing Dynasty government purchased, or it's a reserialized number applied by the communist's arsenal. Also not sure whether this Mod 1904 was the initial purchased in 6.8x57mm caliber or it's the late 7.9x57mm model purchased. If it's original in 6.8x57mm caliber, the refurbish makes sense to bring it to 7.9x57mm as that's the main rifle caliber used back then. If it's the late 7.9x57mm to start with, then the refurbishment process probably just bring it the battle ready condition. It doesn’t have importer marking. Have no idea how it ended up in the states. Anyway, it’s an interesting odd one. Hopefully, the more experienced collectors or historians on this forum can shine a light on this one and provide more information to the history of this rifle. Thanks in advance!
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


More photos to follow.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Nice find!I wrote an article on Chinese M1904 early this year, publishing it on a Chinese magazine. I also have an English version for Banzai but I don't know if it's printed out yet.

Between 1903-1906, China purchased hundreds commercial M1903/04. A few of them were bought for trials. The only Mauser contract sale happened in 1907. 3300 rifles were bought by Shanxi Province in 7mm caliber.

I think Chinese refurbished the receiver crest at sometime . Many PLA used rifle still in original Mauser marking. The refurnish and stock stamp might not done by same party.

What's caliber now? 7mm was rare to find in China though they did manufacture domestically for a short period.

The bolt wad made by Gongxian Arsenal.
 

Attachments

#7 ·
What's caliber now?
It’s 8mm Mauser now. I removed firing pin from the bolt, circled couple of Turkish and PPU 8mm Mauser ammo with no issues.
Question: is the receiver in Intermediate or in Standard length?
It’s Standard length. I removed bolt and inserted another Chinese Zhongzhen Shi (Chiang Kai-shek) rifle bolt, and it cycles without a problem.

If the barrel marking “222,5” implies original 7mm barrel, would that mean that the Chinese converted it into 8mm Mauser when they refurbished it?

Thank you very much Aaron and Chris for your inputs. Very informative of your article in Chinese with a lot of historical artifacts, Aaron.

Very appreciated everyone for your inputs!
 
#6 ·
very rare bird, thanks for posting!
The barrel looks to be the original barrel, due to
  • the Imperial German proof marks (B, U with crown)
  • the old-style rear sight base with high curve, and large no. on the outside
  • the '222,5' barrel stamp: that would indicate a 7mm caliber - that's the rifling length in mm.
Since the barrel stamps are not scrubbed, and she still has the original old rear sight, she might still be in 7mm...

Question: is the receiver in Intermediate or in Standard length? The Mauser M1904 were made in both receiver lengths. Yours might be Standard length, due to the modern bolt. My own M1904 sample (for Brazil) is in Intermediate length.

Chris
 
#10 ·
Earlier, the Qin Impsrial Navy bought 7mm M1895 Rifles for Shipboard Use.
They were still in Service in 1920, during a ROC Navy visit to NYC.
Ammo known from Jinling Arsenal.
Maybe a small lot of M1904 in 7mm also Purchased from German Wholesalers ( German Commercial Proof)
before the definitive M1907 6,8mm Rifle by Army.
BTW, the "222,5" has nothing to do with Rifling. It is the old German " Gauge"
Measure use for denoting Calibre ( Bore at Lands).

DocAV
 
#11 ·
BTW, the "222,5" has nothing to do with Rifling. It is the old German " Gauge"
Measure use for denoting Calibre ( Bore at Lands).
I tried to research on what does 222,5 mean without any fruitful result. What does that mean and how it was measured? Does that still mean the original barrel was in 7mm caliber as Chris (bagiman) indicated? Thanks!
 
#12 · (Edited)
All the 7 and 222,5 marking mean now, is that the barrel was originally a 7x57. There are lots of Turkish reworks, both 1893 and 1903 that can be found with an original Turkish 7.65x53 barrel, complete with inspection marks, that were rebored and rechambered to 7.92x57.

The 222,5 marking is a gauge marking the caliber, and a limit GO/NOGO gauge at that.
Image


Later, Mauser at least would mark barrels like this:
Image


This shows the, at that time obsolete 222,5 markings, as well as the new gauge marking which provides land and groove diameters, and (what Chris was thinking) the twist rate.

A neat rifle for sure, thanks for sharing. I have been wanting to find a relatively complete and as original as possible 1904 for some time. They are elusive!
 
#13 ·
All the 7 and 222,5 marking mean now, is that the barrel was originally a 7x57. There are lots of Turkish reworks, both 1893 and 1903 that can be found with an original Turkish 7.65x53 barrel, complete with inspection marks, that were rebored and rechambered to 7.92x57.

The 222,5 marking is a gauge marking the caliber, and a limit GO/NOGO gauge at that.
View attachment 4131450

A neat rifle for sure, thanks for sharing. I have been wanting to find a relatively complete and as original as possible 1904 for some time. They are elusive!
Thanks for the explanation!