[davidsog]

With recent events unfolding throughout the country, its obvious to me that any SHTF scenario is probably going to be relegated to more urban areas, with maybe some spillover into the surrounding suburban locations. In those instances you are far better off with a weapon that could engage multi threats simultaneously. In that scenario again while better than nothing, a slow clunky bolt action is going to place you at a serious disadvantage. Now If your home is out in the boonies and you've got unrestricted views out to 500, 600 yards in all directions, then that long range bolt gun might be enough to persuade the hoards to go someplace else.

Imo, a shotgun is impractical for anything but inside of 50 yards. If you wait until the mob is that close then you're screwed my friend.

A bolt gun is not practical in an urban conflict.

Urban environments can be deceiving though. There are numerous opportunities for long ranged engagements especially in the vertical or major thoroughfares.

In my experience in the GWOT in urban environments, it is one of those things you do not think about until you are there in it. And when you need it, it is very nice to have....

At close ranges, the extra penetration of a full rifle cartridge can be a lifesaver.

 

[IamElmerJFudd]

One thing to consider is that there's no way to determine if the individual or group at 1000 yards is friendly or not. What are you going to do? Shoot first and ask questions later? Most people don't want to kill anybody or get killed. It is contrary to human nature. In my experience through numerous natural disasters, the initial chaos is temporary. The natural condition of people is order, not chaos. This is why you see civilians directing traffic when the power is out. They are compelled to help and bring order to chaos. This is why people band together to help each other and why strangers comfort each other after natural disasters. Most people are compassionate.

If you can somehow conjure up a global collapse of civil order that doesn't revert back to the natural order of cooperation and compassion within a week, then something worse than anything humans have ever encountered before has happened. If that's the case the only thing that is going to save you is being so far isolated in the boonies that you'll never be found, and you'd better be able to stay isolated and self contained on existing supplies for at least 3 to 5 years while the so called mad hordes kill themselves off or just die of disease and starvation. Some on this forum have been preppers since the Kraken was a guppy but I don't think anybody has 5 years worth of food cached away anywhere, and I only know a very few of you who live far enough away from the hordes.

 

[plonker]

One thing to consider is that there's no way to determine if the individual or group at 1000 yards is friendly or not.

That's odd, because a good telescope (you do have a good telescope for that kind of shooting, don't you?) will sort that problem out right quick.
This is not a new technique, snipers have had spotters doing it for them since the First World War!
It goes beyond looking for a "Uniform" which they probably aren't wearing. You looks for behavior & how they are approaching as well as other things.

 

[Lostinspace]

Thanks fudd that was really well said and true. People really do come together when things are bad.

 

[plonker]

Sadly I can think of a couple of places where that has not happened.
Hot potato I know but Ireland & The republic of Eire.

 

[Lostinspace]

I live in an area where disasters are few and far between maybe an ice storm or snow storm that knocks out power for a few days I did go through Irene which washed most roads out and it was the people, citizens that had the equipment or know how that were right there making things passible while the state was still wiping there butts but if you heard the news reports it was the national guard or the army corps of engineers that saved us don't believe the press.

 

[plonker]

I must admit when "Gloria" came up the East Coast back in '85 I was called by a friend who worked for SUNY.
I grabbed my "crash kit" & headed over there.
"they" had 3 day old cheese sandwiches all nice & curly & crispy.
I had my "Crash Kit" There was no way basically a big BOB was gong to feed them all, but the smell of rice & beans, frybread & minestrone brought them better than a bullhorn.
The rule was you want to take something out? Put something in!
I somehow fed the whole lot of them, because everybody had something.
Even paper plates, plastic cutlery & so on were the price of admission!

When the NG showed up (just before the eye hit) they wanted to scrounge food because they didn't bring any!
I made a lot of friends that day. Friends from every group there was.
I had 2 very large "ethnic" football players show up. I told them sorry guys, back of the line like everybody else.
They said we ain't here to eat, we're here so no one stops you feeding everyone!
I invented the Minestrone stew that day!
Its amazing what people will eat when the alternative is curled dead cheese sandwiches.
& yes, I fed the football players! They "put something in", themselves, when the NG got all pushy.
:clap:

 

[Davis]

I'd have no problem using this Mosin, which is 100% military configuration...

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

don't know what you are hunting for food or how you plan to preserve a deer after a hot meal or two.. would think a 22 would be better for meal size game with little left over or loss and big game is heavy to carry with yoou

me savage 24 22/20 gauge rabbit squirrels dove quail pheasant turkey poosum all yummy all a full meal all without the problems of leftovers or at least not enough left over to make a thanksgiving feast for a large family going to waste or exploded in mush from a 30 cal hit

 

[Big Coulee]

I bought three Monsin Nagant 91/30 rifles back when they were going for about $80 each. Two were sort of run of the mill with somewhat dark bores and hard triggers. The third one was almost perfect, except for the serial number stamped on the mag. floor plate, all other numbers matched. The bore while not perfect is very shiny, the trigger pull is less than 4 pounds, the bolt slides through the action easier than the bolt throw on my Ruger Mod. 77 mag rifle. The stock on this MN has a few little marks here and there but is still very nice. There are two vertical, parallel marks about 3/8" long just above the trigger on the left side. It is easy to imagine what they stand for. I only shoot my own hand loads in this rifle using modern 7.62x54mm brass and non corrosive primers. The three rifles came with heavy canvas slings, dog collars and two pocked ammo pouches. I think the slings could be used for toe straps. If anyone would like to see photos of this rifle I could provide some.

 

[Heavy Metal 1]

. My two both wear scopes. My no.5 using my reloads gets me 1.75 inch groups at 100 yards.... Id like to see a Mosin do that.

Can do that and have many times. Just because someone can't does not mean others cannot achieve that level of accuracy.

 

[saki302]

Can do that and have many times. Just because someone can't does not mean others cannot achieve that level of accuracy.

My M28/30 ,28/76 will easily do sub MOA groups with a good shooter. I have done it, just not every time- it has to be a steady hand / good eye day
I also picked up a cheapie 98/22 mauser which will go sub-MOA with my match handloads.. you never know until you try with good ammo

-Dave

 

[Big Coulee]

Minute Of Angle (MOA) rifles are good if you are doing target competition work. But if your goal is a dependable survival rifle capable of 2 or 3 MOA and plenty of ammo that goes off every time the trigger is pulled what more could you require? I'm not looking for a survival piece that can shoot sub-MOA, I want dependability, knock down power and accuracy sufficient to take down a deer size animal (150 pounds or larger) out to 100 to 150 yds.