Just curious. Did you also put in the 'top shims', or do you feel you only really needed to install the two on the bottom?

 

EDIT: I now have all four shims installed


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The barrel wrap actually doesn't free-float the barrel but instead dampens harmonic vibration, greatly reducing barrel "whip" on firing.

It also reduces stringing when the barrel heats up in many cases.

My barrel wrapped 43 Tula PU has shot a witnessed 5 shot group to 5/8 inch at 100 yards in local competition slow fire with cooling time between shots using new Novosibirsk "LVE" light ball.

( I shoot for accuracy at 1 inch black stick-on dots - "Aim small, miss small." Per Mike Radford's excellent advice years back.)

 

The barrel wrap actually doesn't free-float the barrel but instead dampens harmonic vibration, greatly reducing barrel "whip" on firing . . .

Agreed. The shim(s) placed on the flat behind the recoil crossbolt are what floats the barrel. The magazine shims are used if needed to prevent the action bolts from bottoming out in their holes and/or creating the proper clearance between the top of the magazine and the bottom of the action.

 

My mistake! I removed the extra canvas after installing the square shim above the recoil lug, and the barrel is now floating without having to sand anything


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I installed one of Raupleminze's kits on a refurbed Mosin years ago. Even though it had a like-new bore and a perfect crown, it shot lousy. The post-war refurb stock on it had a rough barrel channel that put all kinds of random pressure points on the barrel.

The shims and wrap helped, but what really made it work was automotive gasket cork in the tapered area of the stock just behind the rear ladder sight. Ol'Relic once posted a nice picture that showed where the shims and wraps should go. I'd post it but it was on my old computer that died.

The regular accuracy kit with the shims and canvas wrap really helped my son's 44 ex-PU Izhvesk.

In my experience, some Mosin's work better with the cork, others with the canvas barrel wrap.

But the long and the short of it is, if you have an otherwise in good condition Mosin, plus good ammo, and it'll only shoot 3 to 5 inch groups, it will very probably be helped by the installation of one of Raupleminze's kits.

 

The only accuracy kit I have used, so far, is lots of ammo.

 

Some of you may have seen the accurizing kits that board member Raupleminze has for sale here on the forum. I decided to give them a try and post my results here, for the purpose of sharing my experience. Should they be as effective as advertised, it might rekindle some of my interest in common refurbished Mosin-Nagant rifles.

I decided to use my first ever C&R rifle, my 1937 Izhevsk M91/30 in a laminate stock. Since I will never sell this gun I have no problem polishing the bolt, doing trigger work, etc. to make it shoot how I want because it's mine. Average ten shot groups for this rifle are about 6" at 100 yards, I probably have put over 3,000 rounds through it on my own. The bore is still clean with good grooves, I would rate VG overall.

6" at 100 yards - ouch! Bet you need better, or at least different ammo. I have been rolling my own for quite some time. Originally had one rifle that went from the 6" groups to 2.5" groups at 100 yards with different milsurp ammo. Ended up reliably around 1.0-1.5MOA with handloads and practice. Best ever was 5 shots touching.

I have used the shims kits from Raupleminze before and am glad that he makes them. They are very nice and very useful. Just don't expect them to fix 6 MOA by themselves.

 

Well, I should correct myself, that was 6 MOA out of ten shots including a flyer or two. My best five shot groups with no flyers were shy of 4 inches wide. Still not impressive, but better than 6 haha.

Another concern I have is the trigger, I feel that will throw me off a bit no matter what improvements have been made

Maybe I'll bring a few different ammo types with me for the test...


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Aadams,


You can always shim the sear spring to see if you like a lighter / shorter trigger pull.. Just don't overdo it and have the going off on its own.

M-N triggers are some of the very easiest to make into a nice smooth pull. Not by shimming, hough it can be done that way, but have a look at the Finnish alterations. Makes the trigger one of the best out there.

 

That shimming the sear spring can be pretty dicey, I wouldn't do it, but each to his own. On the other hand I've had very good luck using a Finn sear on one, and a Fin pinned trigger and sear on another. The Finn pinned trigger and sear gave my tired Tula a real nice two stage trigger. The first stage is real light and easy pull, then the trigger gets real firm, a little bit more movement and "bang"!

This topic has come up before; http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?286535-Mosin-bolt-and-Sears you all might find it interesting.

 

The only truly safe way to "improve" a Mosin trigger is to cut a coil or two from the firing pin spring. Less tension there means less friction between the sear and bolt body and hence a lighter trigger pull. Also fixes the bolt moving up and down with the trigger and gives a more reliable break point. But leave enough tension to fire the primer.

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Yes there are many other things you can do, but they are all quite dangerous if you do them wrong. So not discussing here.

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LMyer,

Yes, you hit the mark there, quite dangerous if done wrong. Of course, if done right......
Grandfather was a motor engineer, and never settled for "it'll do". It was either right or wrong. no half measures.

It kind of rubbed off on me, as we weren't allowed to say "it'll do " or "near enough"....He'd take whatever we were making and chuck it in the scrap under the bench if we ever used those terms. Made us start again!

 

The results are IN!!

For this test I decided to use silver tip, standard surplus ammunition, since it would not be objective against my old results if I were to use something different. Looking back through some photos on my old phone, it looks like I was shooting about 8"-9" groups at 200 yards, not counting the flyers, a couple years back at a different range. So that is the benchmark that I was looking to improve upon.

I started with a five shot group at 50 yards. It wound up being 3 inches!! Figuring I needed to warm up, I loaded and tried again. Same result (or worse).

I did recognize that, being an overcast day, I simply could not make out any points on the target. All I could see was the black sights against the white paper. So I figured, what the heck, and set another target up at 225 yards next to the 8x8 steel gong. Shot the first round at the gong and to my surprise I nailed it!! Shot the remaining four rounds on paper and walked down to this:

Measures 4.5 inches. So that's what, just shy of 2 MOA at 100 yards?? Pretty good!!! I only had about 10 rounds left, so I shot the remaining at the gong because to be honest it was just a lot more fun to consistently ring than putting holes in paper.

So all together I would say that I'm happy with the accurizing kit and I feel that it worked like it should (cut groups in half, give or take and reduce flyers). I think at this point I'm going to make some improvements to the sights, trigger, and ammunition used...to see how accurate this mosin can be!!


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Not too bad for that range! I use an inch diameter blaze orange dot on a black back ground, when I'm shooting iron sights.

 

There is risk everywhere. Two of the Mosins I purchased in the last few years dropped the fired while closing the bolt. Both of these were in cosmoline when I purchased them so the condition was not the result of some amateur effort in the basement. No problem with either since I always disassemble, clean, and inspect each rifle before taking it to the range.

Trigger modifications do introduce risk if they aren't done properly. Modifying a bolt action rifle sear is in different class of risk than modifying a semi-automatic rifle. Worst case in a Mosin is a single round discharge which other normal safety precautions mitigate (muzzle direction, loading only when prepared to fire etc.). This in contrast to the magazine emptying multiple discharge and control issues with an auto-loader.

Trigger sear modifications in Mosins are not inherently unsafe. I modify the sear on my PUs because trigger weights of 6-9lb are not suitable for accurate shooting. I try to get between 2.5 and 3 lbs. pull.

 

I am just now reading this for the first time. Thanks for reviewing the kit!!!

 

No problem! Thanks for making these! After I get the trigger and sights improved I'll post another target here. Debating trying out the Mauser kit as well but that's a different topic

 

Gents, LMyer comments from top to bottom are home run material and worth following , they match my results completely. Take note of a cut of FP spring coil and hand loading of ammo. Good work out of the shim kit and shims done right can bring accuracy but...you got to have a great bore and great ammo to really achieve the rifles potential. Sometimes you only need one or two shims and not the entire kit to bring accuracy in...its a trial and error thing .

There is a conclusion here...the OP brought in accuracy he never had before on that rifle,he is poised now with good hand loads to really bring in the true accuracy if he so chooses to do so. Since the days of spam can cheap ammo are gone , hand loading is recommended to any and all wanting accuracy.

In the early days of this forum circa 2008 to 2009 there was huge fur fights about accuracy of these rifles and I fought all those nay sayers who shot 3 MOA and claimed its as good as it gets. They were wrong and as months went by, others who actually could shoot (really, most of the experts then just slammed rounds down range, they could not / did not shoot well), and gradually the real story of accuracy was correctly put in print. The variable always being if your spam can ammo had bullets correct for the bore diameter of your rifle and if that ammo had not deteriorated while in storage.

Every spam can had the potential to shoot for crap or accuracy. IT was a true crap shoot and some cans would shoot well in some of my rifles and badly in others. On a good can , I had 1 MOA and sometimes less at 100 yds but (for example) the brass cased Czech ammo doing so well did poorly in other Mosins and M39s of mine but in my 1929 Tula Ex Dragoon, this ammo did 1 MOA or better.

Chasing the potential of your rifles accuracy is rewarding. Here the OP had 6 MOA at 100 yds (terrible) and now his rifle is shooting 60% better and with better ammo...might do the 1MOA goal.

My point is : Don't accept bad accuracy as a fact you got to live with. There is a good chance your rifle will shoot far better if shimmed, fed high grade ammo (MATCH GRADE BULLETS FLY BETTER), and you lighten up that trigger pull . Folks that did this got results and those who did not have badly shooting rifles. Problem is operator head space so don't join the flat earth society of 08-09 and claim 3 MOA is as good as it gets.

If you want to read in archives this fur fight, it goes on for months but it fades out as folks step up and shim, trigger work and shoot ammo matching their bore diameter. Rarely today, do you read of rifles shooting badly...the stigma of Mosins being ho hum accuracy are long gone.

Of course if you are screwed up, just a soup sandwich , you can't shoot iron sights or any weapon accurately and while those folks are out there, most shooters can master iron sights and can enhance their skill sets and can shoot very well.. you got to work at it and it will come for you.

Can't see those iron sights....go get a EyePal and stick it on your shooting glasses...that what I did and I see iron sights easily all the way to 1000 yd line. The thing costs $25 and they work.

http://www.eyepalusa.com/

yes RONBO, you can take electical tape, put a pin hole in it and copy this device and if you get it in the right place on your glasses, you will see iron sights far better. Got to get the right size hole mind you .

 

PS: Gunboard member Leon and I bought a large number of Finn triggers and Sears long long ago
and the theme of the boards was a Finn Trigger & Sear would produce the finest trigger pull on the planet.

Well...ain't so. I had new old stock triggers and sears and used triggers and used sears...all Finn (so you know they all had the angel dust of wonderfulness on them) and you know what....I took 5 sets and not a one did anything good on one 91/30 of mine, then I took and tried it on another 91/3o and one used trigger and new sear spring produced an amazing trigger pull.
By trial and error I managed to improve all my 91/30 rifles with these parts but it was not a drop in automatic solution as many have said on these boards. Finn trigger or sear (or both) may or may not produce a wonderful trigger. On my M38...just impossible, so I live with the stock Russian one and the creep .

When the triggers sorted out, coil cut off FP spring and hand load was developed and shims in place...every rifle of mine ..91/30 will hover at 1 MOA at 100 yds. All rifles have pristine bores and hand selected for that and tight muzzles.