I came across one of these at a local auction several years ago and was never able to conclusively identify it. Pulling it out of the stock to see if there are proofs on the barrel might help.

You will have to go to a gunsmith for a chamber cast to find out the caliber, although my guess would be 7x57 or higher.. Best of luck with it.

 

It's one of the FN police carbines, but I have no idea which contract. Caliber would help a lot.

 

John Wall would help a lot too. :-(

Just reminds me of how much he is missed and I haven't been an active collector in 10 years.

Jack

 

Amen brother.

 

Maybe dutch. m48? police carbine?

 

Unlikely to be Dutch if not marked. FN1950 carbines in .30-06 or 7.62 NATO are usually called "Moroccan" by collectors.

 

Play It Again Sam

Otsteve1, perhaps the below Thread of mine from GB Archives might be of interest. It concerns my post WWII FN carbine with receiver ring logo/sidewall FN nomenclature and four digit SN 11xx; otherwise unmarked. From what I can see, it appears yours and mine are largely twins. Interestingly as yours, my bolt handle with matching SN is not flattened and checkered underneath as normally characteristic of other bent bolt FN rifles I’ve observed. Also, now unsure whether mine is 7mm or 8mm and too well stashed to haul out.

Questions please: (1) Is your receiver ring with FN logo as below? (2) Is your action the FN short type or standard length Mauser?

I’ll be interested in whatever information is turned up in respect of your Thread.
Good luck and…

My take.

http://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-104789.html

 

No FN logo. Not sure how to determine length action? Any advice? I really appreciate the suggestions from everyone. Please keep them coming. I'll check your old post. Never thought it would be this difficult to get info on this thing.

thanks

 

Do you have another Mauser, such as German or Czech, Spanish? Try the bolt form it in this rifle, if closes its regular length, if not it is short length. There is only about 1/4" difference. It would be either 8m/m or 30-06. Don't think they were ever made in 7m/m.

 

Your "Carbine" is what is commonly termed (By FN and Collectors) as an M1935 Gendarmerie Carbine; short Barrel, short sights, Originally chambered for 7x57 and 7,9mm (Maybe even 7,65) back in the 1930s; Standard Length Mauser action ( will interchange with German and Czech Mausers). Made from about 1935 to WW II, then recommenced in 1948 (Dutch Police, and East Indies Planters Guild "M48", 7,9mm calibre; and Colombian M1950 (.30/06, with cutout in receiver ring to clear cartridge tip)
Also made as a "Generic" Police carbine in .30 cal, for Morocco. (Later deliveries were in 7,62 Nato (NOT ".308").

Given the very good condition of the Steel, wood and sling, I would say a Moroccan M1950, in 7,62 Nato ( no "receiver relief cut" for .30 cal).

Best to find what the cartridge chamber is...try a .30 cal dummy, if the bolt closes, it is .30 cal (but I don't think so...more likely 7,62 Nato.) BTW, if the receiver Bolt ways are Double Broach cut ( both bolt channels go right through to Barrel face , across Receiver shoulders) it is a Post-1948 Manufacture.

Doc AV

 

Venezuela also got the carbines.

 

First, I believe the correct Belgian designation for this carbine is M1930 for "double broach cut" or casually known as an M1950 (FN1950) for the "single broach cut".

I'd ask: 1) is the butt plate FLAT or CORRIGATED? 2) Look at the barrel stamping and give us a pic....from that we can identify the inspector stamp and date his years of service as an inspector to FN. The stamps will most likely also give us the caliber. 3) On the left lower side of the receiver, look to see if there are still some stamping and if they are faint or clear and precise....that will give us some idea if the receiver has been scrubbed...and lastly, 4) we will need to know definitively if the receiver is either a "single" or "double broach cut".

There are other identifying stamps that will tell us if this is refurnished for post-war contracts but we can go there after you find the rest of my requests! Nice rifle.....I have several and enjoy these more than the 24" barreled Mausers. And Belgium stood out as the best right up there with the Czech's!

missrosalita37

 

Thanks Doc. I'll try the cartridges and see what works. You've been very helpful. I can't believe all the help from everyone on this site and how quick it was. I'm thinking about putting it up on GB, any idea of value or where I can find some comps?

 

butt plate is corrugated. I'll take a closer look when I get home for other marks. Looks like with the snow coming I'll have some extra time on my hands to go over it more thoroughly and post some better pics.

 

"CORRIGATED" points to an M1950, post war Belgian carbine BUT any one can stick the incorrect butt plate on there so the "broach cut" will be definitive for you!

Value ?.... Obviously dependent on condition but realistic value, not cheap or collector "wishing" price, ranges from $400 to $900...as seen on the more popular internet gun sale sites.

missrosalita37

 

I have a very similar rifle that I bought about 20 years ago when I was in the business. Very short barrel, excellent condition, low serial number, no crest or other ID markings other than FN. Mine is chambered in 7.62 NATO (I'm very sure of that; I've fired it). At the time, there were a few of them around and quite a bit of speculation as to who they were built for. The most common idea was that they were for some Belgian police unit. My favorite was that they were a special order for Haiti were and issued to the Tontons Macoutes. Nobody ever came up with any solid evidence, at least not that I ever saw.

The rifle looks to be from the same batch as OTSteve's gun. The barrel measures about 17" from the front of the receiver ring to the muzzle. Is that the correct barrel length for a Moroccan carbine? It also has a corrugated buttplate. S/N on mine is in the low 300's. It has a Century Arms import stamp on the right side of the barrel near the muzzle, which gives the caliber as .308.

 

Fantastic to see this thread. Twenty years ago I bought two rifles advertised as FN 30-06 carbine. Arrived in rough shape, both broken through the stock at the pistol grip. Cost was $125 each. 17 1/2 barrel, and what I think was a mostly scrubbed FN logo. I stuck one in a Laminated Kar 98K stock I cut down and sold for $250, recovering cost for both. The second had a very nice barrel, so I bubbahed it. Filed the barrel down to round, polished out the metal, and sent it off to be reblued. I put it into a spare South American walnut stock I cut down to mannlicher configuration capped with a cut down bayonet lug. Stuck a nice little K4 scope, and got a very handy carbine. I spent a lot of hours one winter on the project. Don't get me wrong, if in decent shape, anything close to the ones pictured here, I wouldn't have messed with them, but they were not. Wrong picture, can't figure out how to delete!

 

I also have one of those mostly unmarked FN49s. Picked it up at an auction for $50 about 3-4 years ago. Barrel is pitted but rifling is sharp. Previous owner wrote in 3 different places in permanent ink "30x06". Had an ugly white painted sling on it. CAI import marks on the barrel MOD 98 Belgium". Top hand guard has a crack and small piece missing. Have been looking for a hand guard but no luck. Anyone have one in their spare parts box!

 

if it is the same size as the Venezuelan m30 carbine then numrich has reproductions for not a lot. I think they are 8 or so inches. I just got one for my carbine. It will need sanding and finish

 

I did some more Google research on the Moroccan carbines and came up with a previous thread from this forum. It's from a couple of years ago. Go to the very last post on the second page - it's from somebody who was working for CAI in the 90's and says they imported a bunch of FN carbines from Morocco at that time.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?347747-Moroccan-Carbine-contraversy

 

What about the Zastava M48 BO rifles, weren't those made without marks?

 

That is a gorgeous crest. Lucky you.

 

desdem12 - Thank you. Found the hand guard where you said and it appears to be the correct length and as the cut out for the rear sight. Appreciate the help.

 

Any time. I have a Venezuelan carbine that was sportered so I had to find the parts. I was happy to see that they were available, even if they are reproductions.

 

It was never designated an M1935. Nor is a "short barrel" as in a "short rifle"...it is clearly a Carbine, not a short rifle! That is a completely different animal!

It IS designated a Fusile Mle 1930 Carbine.

 

It was ever designated an M1935. That is a completely different animal!

It IS designated a Fusile Mle 1930 Carbine.

That is correct, Sir! Thanks for pointing that out.

BILL

 

From reading this Thread and revisiting a couple of similar prior ones, a couple of emerged theories. First that these FN carbines are perhaps best viewed as something of a generic off the shelf product. Moving rapidly into the era of the semi-auto military rifle, such FN carbines likely represented a short, handy, affordable alternative among 2nd/3rd world purchasers. For the most part, they seem to have been acquired in small lots and such morphing a bit in details in the process.

Second regarding the "FN" receiver ring logo, I believe these are rare examples of 'inverse-Bubba! effect'! Yet seriously... By the latter forties, FN was cranking out their own commercial sporters. These rifles were pricey and at least in the Stateside market - where the money was - sales were off to a slow start. Quite possibly some of these commercial FN Logo receivers were drafted into military service, packed up and shipped wherever.

Nowadays, were looking back over a half century at a bit of a potpourri of various contracts for a basic rifle. It appears really quite a bit is known about where many of the generic models went. Just that often these rifles don't wear their ancestry nicely laid out as a part of their nomenclature as well as 'up-front chambering info. Over a half century of sales and resales hasn't exactly promoted a clear trail either!

Just my take

 

Viable theory, Iskra, EXCEPT they began production BEFORE the onset of WW2! I believe they started out as Gendarmarie and/or calvary (bicycle troops) firearms.

Mine actually appears (according to exhaustive research) to be a post-WW1 reparations GEW98 stock (w/Kassel depot cartouches) expertly fitted to a 1936 8mm Fusile Mle by a Belgian armorer since it has no German stamping, the receiver or barrel or anywhere else! It is a "Single" broach" cut....Herstal dated it according to their records as a 1936 Fusil Mle.