[Richard in NY*]

How many Mosins were imported? This is one of those questions that may never be fully answered but if anyone could do a good job of ferreting out the importers’ secrets it would be forum member Steve K from Vermont. Steve worked for Century Arms and traveled the world in search of the latest forgotten hoard of C&R military firearms.

There’s a thread that sometimes comes back to the top where many, including myself, have pleaded with Steve to write a book. An essentially behind the scenes at Century book detailing what he knew, saw, and experienced.

I think Steve has left the matter open, not saying that he would write such a tell-all book but also not saying that it was out of the question.

I know that he sold (or is selling) many of the guns that he handpicked and I haven’t seen him on the forum in quite some time.

Hey Steve, if you’re out there please let us know that you’re OK and all is well. And then tell us if you have made a decision!

 

[peterbats59]

😖

In a troubled world where so little is certain, it is good to know that this crowd can always be easily riled by just mentioning the b-word.

 

[Richard in NY*]

In a troubled world where so little is certain, it is good to know that this crowd can always be easily riled by just mentioning the b-word.

Your lesson today on things you shouldn’t do:

You don't tug on superman's cape.

You don't spit into the wind.

You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger.

You don't mess around with Jim.

And...

You don’t come to a forum FOR COLLECTORS-BY COLLECTORS and expect to hear crickets when you promote the butchery of the guns that most of us love.

 

[Panzer Front]

I've never understood the sporterizing thing either. I think SKS's got it the worst back in the day.

Compare this:

To this:

And there you go, you've got a giant pile of 💩

 

[peterbats59]

I've never understood the sporterizing thing either. ... /QUOTE]

Of course no one here -- and not me either -- would ever advocate doing that to a perfectly good SKS or any other recognizable and functioning milsurp. That's not what I'm talking about, not at all. But numerous studies of "milsurp depression" have shown a leading cause of that malady to be when a milsurp that has already been severely mistreated during its life is put in an Old Age (Collector's) Home, and is never allowed to shoot at any live targets ever again. That's just so sad, and so preventable in some, and perhaps many, cases. Don't think of it as bubba-fication in every case; sometimes it is just giving that milsurp another lease on life, another chance to shoot at and kill something, just like it did when it was a young gun. Hot barrel, dead things, these are what makes a milsurp happiest. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and help the milsurp do what it knows best how to do, and that is -- kill stuff. (Some of us collectors are also meat-eating avid hunters, too -- just sayin'.)

 

[keithreid]

Aztec imported 2 million in the 2000-2002 time frame. I met the owner at Ocala arsenal shortly after that, he said importing so many dropped the prices so low that he would never do THAT again.

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[Panzer Front]

Aztec imported 2 million in the 2000-2002 time frame. I met the owner at Ocala arsenal shortly after that, he said importing so many dropped the prices so low that he would never do THAT again.

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Are you sure it was that many? I seldom ever see aztec imports any more. If this is true than there must be a lot more than 3 million in the country.

 

[Ol' Relic]

In a troubled world where so little is certain, it is good to know that this crowd can always be easily riled by just mentioning the b-word.

"Riled"? Nah, that's a much too optimistic word. It's more of an eye roll kind of thing.

You have to understand that this is how collectors who respect the history of milsurps see bubbafication:

 

[keithreid]

Are you sure it was that many? I seldom ever see aztec imports any more. If this is true than there must be a lot more than 3 million in the country.

Did not see them all stacked up, just passing on a conversation with the owner. 2 million was what he told me.
Around that time, "arsenal wrapped" m38 carbines were being advertised in shotgun news for 39.99.
That's the lowest price I remember seeing.

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[Ol' Relic]

Did not see them all stacked up, just passing on a conversation with the owner. 2 million was what he told me.
Around that time, "arsenal wrapped" m38 carbines were being advertised in shotgun news for 39.99.
That's the lowest price I remember seeing.

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Not impossible, I suppose, but I tend to think he was exaggerating a bit. I've looked at a lot of Mosins, and Aztecs have been possibly the lowest percentage of import markings I've seen.

 

[keithreid]

Not impossible, I suppose, but I tend to think he was exaggerating a bit. I've looked at a lot of Mosins, and Aztecs have been possibly the lowest percentage of import markings I've seen.

Entirely possible.
I noticed a long time ago that I don't really look at refurbs. As a consequence of that, I don't see Aztec, pw arms, and quite a few more.
I mostly look at m91, finn, and SCW rifles, so the normal for me is marathon, century, or no import mark at all.
Nothing against refurbs, I just went in a different direction. Don't look at them unless I see something that's not normal as I pass by.

Keith

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[Richard in NY*]

Not impossible, I suppose, but I tend to think he was exaggerating a bit. I've looked at a lot of Mosins, and Aztecs have been possibly the lowest percentage of import markings I've seen.

Ditto.

 

[fullchoke]

I'll start off by saying, I hope I don't upset anyone, because I know people have strong beliefs.

I collect a few other things besides milsurps. All collectables were not collectable in the beginning. I can't think of anything that was made as a collectable, that really was collectable when it was made. Commemorative rifles are an example. What I'm trying to say is before something became collectable, most often it was thought of as either junk or were so common the price of them signaled not much desirability. When milsurps were dumped here they fit this description, and Mosin's are the prime example. They were sold by the millions, and we remember that time as the "golden years". Bubba enters the picture like he always does, and shows no respect for the future collectability of said anything. Today we scratch our heads, wonder, or with anger think how can he do this? But this is what Bubba always does and what he will always do, whether it's classic cars, vintage camera's, chainsaws, or comic books. The most successful collector probably wasn't thinking about future value when he started, he was collecting what he liked. Prices started rising, when supply was falling, and demand increasing. Bubba was now a fool, no longer being the practical guy. Remember when sportered rifles sold at a premium over the original milsurp? I'm not mad with Bubba... of course I wish he could have picked a more common example at times. What really does bother me is the guy that see's the spike in value and tries to capitalize on it by creating fakes. Lying and deception is what needs to be called out today, and I commend those that do.

 

[David Murvihill]

Prior to 1986, there was NO REQUIREMENT for importers to apply new serial numbers to imported surplus firearms, and in fact, it was several years after 1986 before this rule was implemented by the ATF. Before 1986 there were also no requirements for imported surplus firearms to be marked with importer name or country of origin. In the golden age, some importers did this just for marketing reasons...
In addition to the many MN sold off to US importers from Finland in the 1950s, and from the sale of surplus rifles by Franco in the 1950's, and the post 86 various European imports, let us not forget the vast numbers, probably in the 10s of thousands, or more, of T53 Mosin carbines from the Korea war era, and more recently from China, that were imported pre and post 1986, via Century, Navy Arms, via Val Forgett and Interarmco, etc.

The requirement to mark a gun with country of origin is from the Tariff Act of 1930. It wasn't just guns, it was just about everything but food and raw materials.

 

[Deerhound3]

I used to hit the hock shops back before you could buy cheap Russian ammo. They were loaded with Korean and Vietnam souvenirs nobody wanted. Same with the pistols. When I was a kid I bought one through the mail all matching with a Czarist stamp on it. They have been coming in for a long, long time. Ever see a Bannerman rework? They were pretty early.

 

[bnighter]

Behind every blade of grass....
I have almost 10

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Giggle..

 

[Ol' Relic]

I used to hit the hock shops back before you could buy cheap Russian ammo. They were loaded with Korean and Vietnam souvenirs nobody wanted. Same with the pistols. When I was a kid I bought one through the mail all matching with a Czarist stamp on it. They have been coming in for a long, long time. Ever see a Bannerman rework? They were pretty early.

The ones converted by Bannerman didn't have to come in: they were already here.

 

[reloader970]

i have 4..

 

[Deerhound3]

37 million were made total according to wikipedia, around 3 million by just Izhevsk in 1943 alone. Probably more than half were destroyed or scrapped.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information when it involves a lot of things with no records. They take their information out of books that are less than accurate at times.

 

[Triggeriraq]

I have a few,
View attachment 3974478

Do you have an M28/76?