DO NOT DO THIS!!! Bending frame is too easy to over-do, twist instead of simply bending in a single plane, or even break it.

 

Awwwww , c'mon .... just a LITTLE tweak???

 

Call Ruger

 

aim 3 inches to the right, I suspect that's Ruger will tell you.

 

I have slightly opened up the rear notch on one side to move the rear of the revolver over a little. I have also heard that the front sight could be bent or the bbl turned. I don’t think I’d bend the frame. My Thunder Ranch Smith .45 revolver had to go back to them to get the bbl trued up. It was not screwed in enough so was canted causing it to shoot off to one side, don’t remember which side. Kentucky windage is the simplest solution.

 

Bending the front sight or turning the barrel are the old standard methods. I agree about not trying to bend the frame. I'd avoid that approach at all costs.

There's a lot of things I disagree with Elmer Keith about, but I do agree with his comments about wanting adjustable sights. The only thing I want fixed sights on is a belly or pocket gun. Any holster gun of mine with have adjustable sights.

 

Well, looking at the revolver from the rear you will be screwing the barrel in tighter/more. There is a whole lot more than just math going on and a barrel that is already shouldered up tight will not want to turn without some relief and the above mentioned bending, breaking, springing of the frame would very likely occur. The barrel/cylinder gap will change somewhat and a few degrees with an already tight gap may necessitate refacing the rear of the barrel
The ejector housing can be tweaked a few degrees out of alignment and still work though. There are two piece blocks made for this kind of thing and usually made by the guy doing a lot of revolver work. I don't recall ever seeing them for sale, just in the shop. I've changed many S&W barrels and most will unscrew easily with a medium amount of proper persuasion. My homade tool was a piece of hickory shaped on the joiner to exactly fit the window of the different frames sizes, stripped of course, and long enough to use both hands for equal torque. Made up some hardwood blocks to clamp the barrels in but mostly used thick leather with rosin in the vise jaws. If you don't have a medium/heavy duty vise with large jaw surfaces bolted to an immovable bench with the other right stuff, then don't try it. But they are your guns to do with what you will, no foul, no penalty. But Ruger will take a dim view ($) should the worst happen and their services be required. It's way better to have the horse pull the wagon then try to push them both.
All that being said, learning the Kentucky windage correction is easy enough at close handgun range. Unless ones OCD will absolutely not allow it, well then........?

 

I am just a lowly, retired Engineer and I was thinking, what would I do if I needed to adjust windage on a SA WITHOUT doing any permanent modifications to the pistol. I figure you have a blued, back edge of the front sight you want to ignore, but want to have an edge that is more visible through the rear sight notch, but attached to the left or right of the existing blade. I have a theoretical idea that I have never tried, but it is easily added and removed without any damage to the gun. I would scrounge a piece of thin scrap plastic or other material in a bright color, such as white (or you could paint it any color you want) and I would cut it to the same shape as the front blade. Then I would epoxy it to the side of the front blade, the side of the blade depending on which windage direction you want to correct for. Then when lining up the rear sight notch, use the colored front sight blade and NOT the blued blade and your windage correction should take affect. Obviously these are simplistic instructions and such things as thickness of the added blade could affect your windage and may need to be adjusted, by filing, or some other method. The sight addition can be easily removed later if desired by carefully prying it back off the blade and knocking off the epoxy residue.

Comments?

Bob

 

Thanks for the replies. Excuse me for taking a while to get back to this thread. I thought I was going to get email alerts. I got nothing, so I thought no one was replying. I am not try to bend the frame. Highrider was correct. I am thinking about screwing the frame tighter against the barrel, which would result in the rear sight moving to the right. I appreciate Highrider's comments about the potential problems with this. While I can not specifically state where I read it, I have read that most revolvers have some "wiggle room" in that the barrel can be tighten or loosened a small amount. Reading it, even in a national magazine, does not mean it will work for you, or in this case, me. rambob, I like your idea as it could be tried first with no ill effects if it does not work. I don't think I can let this go, call it OCD if you wish, but I like my sights to shot to point of aim. I had to file the front sights, on both guns, to get them to hit point of aim. Baltimoreed, maybe filing on the rear notch might work. Now I need to think about the information present in this thread and study on this some more. I have a car project which is going to get done before this, so it maybe a while before I let you'll know what happens. Again, if anyone has done this with a Ruger Vaquero, or other SA, I would like to hear how you did it.

 

FWIW - You might contact Ruger and see if they'll help you out. If the windage is truly "off" they should fix it for free as it would be their fault.

-Ron

 

Why would anyone opt for a NEW gun with FIXED Sights? Whenever Possible, get Adjustable sights. Yes, I own several fixed sighted handguns that I bought USED and had to work to get a powder charge and bullet weight that came close to point of aim/point of impact at 25 yards.

At S&W Armorer's School, we "adjusted" (The Very COMMON) windage problems on fixed sighted revolvers by WHACKING the muzzle in the opposite direction of needed change on a Block of Lead. Hammer Mechanics at its best! SO very precise????

Folks who buy Fixed Sighted guns Deserve what they get. For $20-$40 more they could have had adjustable sights and EASILY Dialed in whatever sight adjustment needed.

Those Lead Block Whacks were never permanent at S&W. After a few hundred rounds, the Windage went back to the prior setting. SO, Whack again and again, or Buy Adjustable Sights in the first place. At today's gun prices, I can't understand why gun makers put out FIXED Sights in view of the many Different bullet weights in all calibers. Adjustable sights are the ONLY way to go, Anything less is false economy...

Webley

 

You have a point, sir, ands MOST of my handguns have adjustable sights. As much because they are usually Patridge or close and provide a precise picture as well as the help in getting a good zero. But I've got some fixed sight guns because that is how they come (real GI 1911A1, for instance, or my c.1950 BHP), or because they were used guns in that configuration (S&W .41 Mag revolver for example). That said, I discovered long ago that at handgun ranges on the sort of targets I usually have the gun for, the fixed sights do just fine in getting the bullets into the zone of maximum effect.

 

I called Ruger today. The results were more or less in line with what I expected. I explained my problem and the women I was speaking to gave an OH. I told her it sounded like she had heard this problem before. She said, "No my book got caught." She asked for a second while she looked up Vaqueros in her book. Once I gave her the serial number she confirmed the year the guns were made, and then ask if the front sights look straight or if they looked off. I told her they were straight. She asked if the barrels were straight. I told her they were. At that point she said I could send the guns back and they would look at them. I asked if I sent them both in the same package if it would still be 30 bucks return shipping per gun, as per web site. She said if they were sent in the same package, they would only charge 50 dollars return shipping. I asked her about moving the frame and she said she knew nothing about that. I then recapped, that I could sent the guns back, Ruger would look at them provide an estimate, if there was a cost, and then either do the work, or just return the guns. She agreed with that, and I thanked her and hung up.

Kind thought that was how it would go, but I was hoping for some one with a little more technical knowledge. I re-read the article on adjusting fixed sighted revolvers. It was by Mike Venturino of Handloader magazine. In light of some of the information posted on this thread, specifically Highrider's comments on the cylinder gap, I am going to write Venturino and see what he has to say about that. So I think this thread will go cold for a while as I wait for a reply. I need to load up some more .357 ammo anyway. Also while I wait, I am going to explore rambob's ideas. I think I have a couple of proof of concept ideas. This is not over.

As for why fixed sighted guns, because I wanted them!

 

Pulling left while firing is known phenomenon. Before the axe handle stuff starts you maybe could shoot some more. Ease off on your grip some, move the trigger finger and nothing else.

 

Pulling left while firing is known phenomenon. Before the axe handle stuff starts you maybe could shoot some more. Ease off on your grip some, move the trigger finger and nothing else.

Spot on!

I've had a love affair with traditional SA revolvers for close to 10 years now. I spent the first 2 or 3 years I bending sights and filing sight notches because "they" all seemed to shoot left. Finally I realized it was 99.9% ME that was shooting left. If you think about it, a well made revolver with a nice square frame, a straight barrel and a good crown, should have no reason to shoot left or right. Why wouldn't t shoot straight?
In the dozen-and-a-half or more fixed sight revolvers I've owned over the last 10 years I've had exactly one, a Ruger Police Service Six, that shot way left. I finally figured out the front sight was tilted slightly right because the barrel hadn't been turned all the way in. I removed the barrel, work down a burr that was preventing complete barrel tightening and reinstalled. Done.
So, I would shoot, and shoot a lot before I ever dreamed of fiddling with the sights. Learn the proper methods such as grip, trigger control, and follow-through. Handgun shooting, especially at distances of more than just a few yards requires exacting techniques in order for the bullet to go where it should.
Except for those who like piddling with lots of different loads, adjustable sights can really be a crutch and prevent shooters from learning proper technique. Left shooting revolvers fired by right-handed shooters is a very common problem caused by improper technique, and using adjustable sights to correct the problem doesn't help.
Sometime just for grins, get on Gunbroker and look at auctions for used revolvers with adjustable sights. When the pictures permit, notice how many of them have their rear sights run over to the left. I think you'll be surprised.

 

Your hand and arm are part of the recoil system. Try turning the grip in your hand. A little bit goes a long way.

 

I recall Skeeter Skelton writing that all fixed sighted handguns shot about an inch to the left for him. Charlie Askins wrote that he made a tool to adjust the front sights of the Border Patrol's Colt New Service 38s for wind age, he left no details of its design. IIRC the Old Rule for fixed sighted handguns was you found that elusive "Just Right", perhaps some gentle filing of the front sight.

 

Still waiting for a reply to my letter to Mike Venturino. Trying to find small pistol primers to load up some more .357 ammo. Dry firing the Vaqueros so when I check the point of impact vs point of aim one last time I will be sure it is the guns and not me. Don't see much else to mention right now.

 

great shooting and control, 35whelen. nothing wrong with those sights. and fast on target i bet. AZshooter, as long as you use a small anvil, they wont move as far when you wack it. i had a 4" sw model 10-4 which grouped well, but not exactly poa. i was able to carefully thin the front sight blade opposite to the direction i wanted poi to move. then i epoxied a thin brass shim stock to the opposite side of the blade. overall blade width remained unaltered, but it improved sight picture and effectively moved poa and poi together. clyde, weren't the old tyler grips and trigger shoes useful in correcting poor hand positioning? best regards, john

 

great shooting and control, 35whelen. nothing wrong with those sights. and fast on target i bet. AZshooter, as long as you use a small anvil, they wont move as far when you wack it. i had a 4" sw model 10-4 which grouped well, but not exactly poa. i was able to carefully thin the front sight blade opposite to the direction i wanted poi to move. then i epoxied a thin brass shim stock to the opposite side of the blade. overall blade width remained unaltered, but it improved sight picture and effectively moved poa and poi together. clyde, weren't the old tyler grips and trigger shoes useful in correcting poor hand positioning? best regards, john

yes, the Tyler "T-grip adapters" help with achieving a good and repeatable grip/hand position. And Ace trigger shoes help with trigger control, on just about any handgun (or indeed, rifles). Several of mine (including BHP, 1911A1, Model 19, Colt PPS and Ruger .357 Blackhawk) have them and it is my feeling they are helpful. May be a fig newton of my imagination, but there you are. The little Colt PPS (in 32-20) has a T-grip adapter as well as the shoe.

 

< we always filed the Front sight a little On the front sight left side..Bring it right.

 

35 whelen.. Excellent shooting..
I love my 44s...

 

This thunder ranch .45 did shoot left because the bbl wasn’t screwed in far enough. I sent it back to s&w and they screwed it in so that the front sight was at 12 o-clock. They also changed the front sight. I added the stags.

 

I had traded into a 45 Colt caliber Vaquero still in the box. Excellent condition save one problem. Bubba had filed away half the front sight. Sees like it cost $170.00 to get resolved plus shipping one way. It's not cheap to undo this sort of modification. Personally, I find my Vaquero's do very well if, and only if, owner is handling guns correctly. It's all about my shooting. There guns shoot well be are not bullseye target guns. These guns are regulated for certain range of loads.

 

I have never heard back from Mile Venturino of Handloader magazine. However, in late October of 2020 I sent the following letter to Dope Bag Q&A of the American Rifleman. Here is the letter:

Here is the reply from the NRA.

So, one of the concerns I had, the impact on the barrel/cylinder gap has been answered. I need to think on this some more before moving on. One of the biggest problems I have, along with many others, is every round I use on this project is one less round I will have for other shooting. I have not even seen a small pistol primer in months and I am not seeing any factory ammo I could use for this project. Well just wanted to update the thread. Hope everyone's New Year is Happy.

 

got rid of my charter arms 44 sp. just because of the 7:00 printing 4 inches low to left. 15 yards with hollow points! wad cutters point of aim?
if a gun prints to aim fixed great.

 

Back in ancient times we put together a team of shooters from the department and shot Police Pistol matches all over California. Most of us could not afford a target pistol and shot the duty weapon, mine being a 4” Combat Magnum. At that time we shot positions from 60 yards to 7 yards, the best shooter on our team had a light 4” barrel .model 10 as his only pistol and consistently blew a big hole in the center of the X ring.
I have many fixed sight pistols and know how to shoot them in combat situations, never have I encountered a fixed sight pistol carried daily to have a loose ( or missing) sight, sight knocked out of adjustment, sight blade mashed on one side or missing, etc. Both styles of sighting equipment have their good points and for an experienced shooter become deadly accurate.
PS: I attended the S&W revolver school three times ( told Chief updates were important) and cannot recall ever bending a barrel to make it shoot to a different point of aim. In fact we did not fire any of the pistols we assembled they had guys to do that. We did “wap” them with that lead bar in other places however.

 

PS: I attended the S&W revolver school three times ( told Chief updates were important) and cannot recall ever bending a barrel to make it shoot to a different point of aim.

I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone actually bending a handgun barrel to correct point of aim. Shotgun barrels, yes. I've bent a few shotgun barrel myself to correct point of aim issues.

 

combat master, 685 smiths great duty guns in day!<><dan