Gunboards Forums banner

collectable winchester 94 pre 60s question ?

3.5K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  Rook49  
#1 ·
Hello all around !

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. Recently I acquired an older model 94 carbine which left the factory in 1949. This is my first older collectable winchester. It works fine and shoots very accurate. Since the action was a bit stiff and hard going, I completely disassembled the rifle, cleaned and lubed all parts and carefully put it back together again. The first positive thing I noticed: unlike with my italian replicas, there was no re-fitting, deburring, polishing edges or any other fine-tuning necessary at all. After removing over half a century of grime and gunk everything worked much easier and smoother except one thing: when pulling the lever up and loading a live cartridge it becomes difficult to close the action as soon as the locking bolt moves behind the breech bolt and it takes a bit of effort to close the lever the last inch. So either I slam the lever closed rather brisk and hard or I apply thet extra pressure on the last inch.

Is that normal on the older original models? Is there a problem that should be addressed? Or is that the way it is supposed to work?

I am not a gunsmith so many thanks for answers and opinions !

 
#2 ·
I just checked a 94 from 1948-49 and it has some resistence at the closing, but not real hard. did you relube it after the complete take down and cleaning? light grease on the locking slider and the lower lever lock may help. most of the older lever actions were not shot to death, but were carried a lot.
 
#4 ·
I'm no Winchester Mod '94 collector or expert but I bought my first center fire rifle in 1952, a '94 lever action Winchester. I've taken a few deer and coyotes with it and my son has taken several deer with the '94. There is some resistance on the last inch or so when closing the lever but nothing excessive. The '94 has never been taken apart as far as I know. It is in at least 95% original condition and is well capable of harvesting whitetail or mule deer here in Montana. Welcome to the wonderful world of '94 Winchesters.
 
#5 ·
The gun was reassembled and lubed correctly, however I don't use grease. How much effort to work the lever is normal and how much is too much is a matter of individual perception, I suppose. This is my only 94 but in comparison, all my 73s work much smoother. In fact, they work very much alike until the last inch before complete lock-up. This is where the 94 requires more effort than any of my 73s. Is this a common thing?

@eastbank: I'll try some grease on the slider. Thanks.
 
#6 ·
Parts substitution is something to be considered. Winchester parts are supposed to be interchangeable, but it was made close to a time when a lot changed around Winchesters.

Also need it be something at the rear of the bolt? The bolt face or rear of the barrel may have become accidentally burred, or a different extractor fitted, and could be jammed against the barrel. Or the side of the receiver may have been accidentally pressed inwards. It would only have to be very slightly to rub on the rear of the floorplate.

These may show up in brightened metal, but if not, smoke or felt-tip pen should reveal them
 
#7 ·
I have a few Win 94 & 64 Models from 1903 thru '45, none with such problems. If you're experiencing such with FACTORY ammo, I do believe something is amiss. As I first viewed the photos, pinging on the "30WCF" versus "30-30 Winchester" designation, wondering if the barrel was swapped. But quick check and year '49 was the cusp of nomenclature change & seeming likely original.
IF ammo is spec., believe Caledonian is probably offering the 'most likely scenario'. Such or my ever preaching the 'time' element. The greater the weapon existence, the greater 'Bubba factor', working his often nefarious deeds. Lack of obvious alteration, no assurance and that such factor also dovetailing with Caledonian's suggestion.
Worst case scenario, you have a nice looking Model 94 and what sounds like minor problem likely more difficult to pin down than work a fix.
Good luck and...
Happy Holidays!

Just the side observation twobit, it appears you could misplace a dozen or so Model 94s in that collection and not notice! Impressive! :) :) :)
 
#9 ·
With the help of all you guys I am slowly getting to the bottom of the problem.
@twobit: I checked your online manual and nothing wrong with assembly.
@eastbank: grease didn't do much either
maybe I didn't emphasize it enough but I did mention that the problem occurs when loading live rounds from the mag. tube. Repeating the action with the gun empty doesn't take nearly as much effort - I would say so slight that it's probably normal. My ammo is not factory but reloaded Remington empties (unfortunately I have no factory Remingtons left right now). But if the re-loads are the problem, I can't imagine why. Or perhaps I should take everything apart again and have a look at the inside of the chamber for burrs or the like preventing the cartridge from smoothly entering the chamber completely.
 
#10 ·
Sometimes checking a circuit breaker rather than rewiring... Analogy! I'd sure invest the paltry sum in a box of 30-30 factory ammo... Just belt & suspenders. Occam's razor! That said, your additional disclosure also quite possibly relevant. Wondering if the interference areas you suspect are actually themselves 'victims' of some linkage problem onset with rounds.
Again, Happy Holidays & good solution 'hunting'!
John
Will be interested to learn how this mystery all turns out!
 
#12 ·
What IRONWORKER said. Obvious in pics, also the the screw that captures the pin that links the lever to the bolt seems a little deep and the pin may not be well centered in the bolt. Redo/check these two easy too do things and the lever should throw nice and easy M/T. There is always a little more resistance when chambering and the extractor is slipping over the rim of the cartridge. If you knocked out the pins and removed the extractor to detail clean the slot, there may be an issue there too. Standing by........
 
#14 ·
Make sure you do what IRON WORKER said also. That pin the lever pivots on is proud on the left side of the receiver and should not be that way. Just back off the little screw on the bottom that secures the pin a turn or two and push the pin into the receiver so its flush on both sides and retighten. The pin needs to be centered for the screw to engage the groove in the pin correctly.
 
#16 ·
sure, If we are talking about the largest of the 3 pins (the furthest to the front and bottom on the left side of the receiver), I just found that I can move it back and forth with my fingers without backing out the retaining screw on the bottom. It is loose enough so I can move it by applying enough pressure with my fingers. I centered it so it is flush on both sides of the receiver. And what a surprise, the action works better now and doesn't stick on the final inch before locking up.

ok, good enough for now but I don't think that pin should move so easily, right?

Will be away for a couple of days on an errand and will have a look at what's wrong as soon as I return. Meantime, thanks a million!
 
#17 ·
I'm back and a very Merry Christmas to everyone !

@iskra & Dalased: brought back a box of factory 150gn SPFN Federal ammo. No difference.
@highrider & Ironworker: Backed out the captive screw on the lever and removed the pivot pin, visually inspecting both - seem fine. Replaced the pin from the other side (not that it makes a difference), centered it and replaced the screw nice and tight. The pin still has a little play and easily moves a bit left and right - what you see on the 1st photo is the pin protruding a bit on the left side of the receiver. It can be pushed in and to the right the same distance - that's just the way it is. I checked again and it doesn't really make a difference if the pin is centered or slightly off center when working the action. What improved it a bit was eastbanks suggestion of greasing the locking slider.

What do I do now?:confused:
 
#18 ·
I hoped maybe you were binding the screw against the pin . The link pin should have only a very slight movement definatly not as much as seen in first photo.
Only other thing double check the friction stud and lower tang where they meet.Put a little oil down the friction stud and compress a few times. Also double check the extractor tip make sure its not bent and apply oil in the filler oval and work it up and down over a dummy cartridge .
 
#19 ·
The linkpin moves as far left as can be seen in the photo and exactly the same distance to the right and out on the other side of the receiver. And I can't see anything wrong with the pin or any excessive wear on the screw. I applied a little oil to the friction stud as well. I have the impression the additional grease and oil improved the action somewhat.

Had a buddy of mine bring over his '94 - a newer rifle from about the mid 1980s. His action is very smooth but also requires noticeably more effort as soon as the locking block moves up behind the bolt, locking it into full battery. I am beginning to think that is normal with the '94s. As I said, this is my first one. Perhaps the tolerances are just a bit tighter on the pre-64 guns.
 
#20 ·
There should be no Great force During any movement of the action.... If lube wont help, and hardware secure and correctly installed something is up with the Lifting/Locking blocks and the bolt...again if you can close the lever with 2 fingers its fine...if there is marked resistance its not right. Did it function fine before you fooled with it???? if so...well ...hummm.... time to get the IPB out.
 
#21 ·
I had one start acting similarly out of the blue and it turned out to be a "nic" or "bur" on the forward face of the extractor, took my 5x reading glasses to see it but once I saw it, I could feel it, slicked it out with fine emory cloth and problem solved. Still don't know how it got there but it had to be me put it there, couldn't have been bubba because the problem wasn't there when I bought the rifle from him.

Like DK says too, Molybdenum di sulfate lube is good stuff.

Enjoy that cool old '94. Does it have the "flat band" on the front?