Coupla weeks ago ,there was a pic online of US marines with captured Dutch carbines on Bouganville.........There were plenty of Dutch rifles came from the tunnels at Rabaul in the 1960s

 

Neat gun, thanks for sharing!

We had a good discussion on a KNIL M95 I have that’s been modified to take the Japanese type 30. I also link to a Forgotten Weapons video where Ian tours a museum on Guadalcanal and sees some Dutch guns used by the Japanese.

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/japanese-modified-dutch-m95-knil.1240532/

 

Looking back through that thread, I’m realizing you’d actually commented with some interesting stuff in there already, so you’re tracking

 

very interesting Damien, TY for sharing

 

Why do the finger grooves look so long and strange. Is it just the lighting?
Looks like an Escher drawing.

 

The KNIL M95 has absurdly long finger grooves, as well as that little upward cut at the back. I think it adds to the rifle’s look but they do approach “goofy”-level lengths.

 

Ive never heard any informed comment on who was using the M95s .....possibly East Indies natives who joined the Co Prosperity Sphere?.....or some have suggested the guns were issued to Korean auxilliaries ,who were numerous in the Jap armies in the Pacific islands .

 

Both the rifle and this are news to me. Fascinating!

 

What a great rifle, I would be proud to have it in my collection.

 

The KNIL Geweer Modell 1895 upward cut was done so that it was easier to remove the handguard as it had two-spring clips to hold it on the top of the barrel unlike the Metropolitan Homeland Geweer Modell 1895 which had only one spring clip holding it on. The Homeland Geweer Modell 1895 rear barrel band was longer in height as it held the front part of the handguard under it to keep it on the barrel whereas the KNIL version used the two-spring clip system to hold it on instead of the barrel band.
The finger groove was lengthened to help facilitate the removal of the handguard as well. It also had another purpose that I cannot remember as to why at this time, I will have to look in the book, Nederlandse Vuurwapens 1897-1942; Knil en Militaire Luchtvaart by G. de Vries and B. J. Martens.

Patrick

 

Those Dutch rifles are dripping with the history of two powerful and brutal imperialist colonial regimes that clashed and ultimately failed miserably. I guess it’s a good thing they can’t talk, in this case anyway.
I’ve never beheld one in any collection that I know of but have read the little snippets of information available here and there so vaguely aware anyway. They are configured rather uniquely enough though and the finger groves are a special favorite. I can understand the reasoning for them as Patrick has so kindly pointed out but I’d like to handle one just to feel if all that routing and finishing made any difference at all in overall usage. Can sorta see how the “little upward flip” might be beneficial to the vertically challenged and short armed combatants of the era in a danger close scrum.
Great thread OP!

 

Before the volcano erupted,Rabaul was awash with salvaged xxxxxx weapons from the tunnels ...........I had a pic of a native employee of the company with two Lewis guns ,holding them like pistols.

 

What happened to them after the eruption? Tunnels collapsed, or everything just buried under ash?

 

A late friend headed up the Police in Rabaul. Had to attend all Coronial Inquests & had some extremely incredible tales to tell.

 

The only Dutch weapon I owned was a Steyer made Schwarzlose M15 in 6.5mm. It was a solid beast and had the three lions coat of arms engraved onto the top of the water jacket.

It was recovered from Dutch West Papua at the end of WW2 and was in a private collection for many years. I ended up with it in the early 1990s and enjoyed owning it. The noted collector Henk Visser (RIP) had seen a few guns in his time and declared it to be the only survivor he knew of. All good until the Australian gun buy-back occurred.

Fortunately all round, it was fairly valued $$ wise and I could nominate whether it went to a museum or got shredded. I stitched up a deal with Henk and long story short, it was ultimately traded to the KNIL museum he sponsored. It is pictured in the book by Martens & de Vries on the KNIL weapons. Other than the obvious downside of me not owning it anymore, it was a good outcome.

 

Not to nitpick, but the Marines don't have a rank of Tech. Sergeant. That was an Army rank.

 

Not nitpicking, it is a valid point. A great power of these forums is to have many sets of eyes look around something and see something different.

I am no authority on the US ORBAT, but it would be USMC rather than USAMC?

My understanding is that the USMC is the Navy's Army rather than the Army's Navy. But did the US Army have its own amphib or waterborne element?

 

I haven't seen too many with Japanese provenance, but there are a few, some with marked stocks as well (can't recall if they went to schools or what) as well as the Dutch Lugers.

Interestingly enough, right before the pandemic, Heritage Auctions conducted an auction from Shirley Temple's estate, including items owned by her husband Charles Black. One lot sold an M.95 with the bayonet as well as a Shin-Gunto (possibly sometime after his action that saw him awarded the Silver Star?). I'm not sure of any other markings or if it was converted, but does have a marked silk sleeve on the sling.

https://historical.ha.com/itm/long-guns/bolt-action/rare-captured-japanese-used-geweer-m-95-dutch-mannlicher-bolt-action-rifle-leather-sling-and-bayonet-with-army/a/6211-40001.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

I was actually going to participate, but was saving up since I was about to PCS from Diego Garcia to Yokosuka, and having my (now ex) wife and pup (or at least, he never lost the puppy in him lol) at home, couldn't find anything to justify it, especially with the blade so corroded. But if I knew it would have gone the price that it didn't, I probably would have found some excuse or sold one the blades/guns I didn't need, haha!

 

In answer to Mr 1903A1 ......the tunnels are still there ,and you can join guided tours of the largest ,most accessible ones ........even the famous 'barge cave ' still has rusting barges in it.

 

“Of U.S.A. Marine Corps?”🤨 No U.S. Marine would ever write that.

 

Indeed. That's what I was thinking.

 

Possible the gun was in a small museum ......cops have made it almost impossible for museums to have guns here.