Good shooting. 👍

 

Fine looking rifle. Yours is in the middle of Remington 03A4 rifles in the last block of assigned rifles, serial numbers 4992001- 4999045. I recall Norway received/purchased M1 and M1Ds post WW2 as part of NATO. Did they also use 1903A4s?
Does the scope base have shims between it and the bridge of the receiver?

 

Fine looking rifle. Yours is in the middle of Renmington 03A4 rifles in the last block of assigned rifles, serial numbers 4992001- 4999045. I recall Norway received/purchased M1 and M1Ds post WW2 as part of NATO. Did they also use 1903A4s?
Does the scope base have shims between it and the bridge of the receiver?

Hi Sir,
This A4 had a M73B1 scope when I bought it. Rifle has been in Norwegian force , sold out frem end of use. You can tell by Lion with ax stamp. There is one ore two A4’s at National armory museum in Oslo.
I did the M84 change , like better shooting, than wallhangers. Cant see any shims no.

 

The shims are sometimes hard to see except when the armorers got sloppy with them like this one:

 

Hard to tell, but yes, many something under there.
Thx for info👍

 

My Smith-Corona A/4 clone with Lyman Alaskan scope . Been awhile since I've had her out, and need to do so.

 

I have a Lyman Alaskan scope on a G&H mount and a Lyman 48 rear aperture sight (which must be removed if the scope is attached). It's for a sporterized 03 that I think was converted to sporter configuration by Springfield Armory. The officer for whom the CMP papers state he was assigned to Springfield Armory at the time and the National Park Service at Springfield Armory confirmed his presence. They sold it to him for $15 (defective rifle price - b/c they left the front sight loose!).

The rifle looks like the drawing in Bruce Campbell's book, The Smokeless Era.

 

I shoot my clone Gibbs 03A4 with Lyman Alaskan scope out to 1000 yds. At 1000 yds, I can hold 9 ring all day long and migrate some to 10 ring which is not too shabby for a non glass bedded action with an anemic 2.5 power scope. For sniper use, at that range, its still combat effective which makes me wonder why the US military did not just upgrade the optics for the 03A4 , there were plenty of 4 and 6 or 8x scopes available to do so in Korean War and years leading up to Viet Nam War.

The answer is indifference to sniping until a crisis arises and a overwhelming need arises. Thankfully today the US Army has changed its views but it could not stand down and walk away fast enough from sniper systems post Viet Nam War. The US Marines did not do this, they continued perfecting sniper rifles and sniper training and that paid huge dividends. Big Army finally got smart on this but it sure was dumb all my 30 years of Army service. SNORT !!

 

I shoot my clone Gibbs 03A4 with Lyman Alaskan scope out to 1000 yds. At 1000 yds, I can hold 9 ring all day long and migrate some to 10 ring which is not too shabby for a non glass bedded action with an anemic 2.5 power scope. For sniper use, at that range, its still combat effective which makes me wonder why the US military did not just upgrade the optics for the 03A4 , there were plenty of 4 and 6 or 8x scopes available to do so in Korean War and years leading up to Viet Nam War.

The answer is indifference to sniping until a crisis arises and a overwhelming need arises. Thankfully today the US Army has changed its views but it could not stand down and walk away fast enough from sniper systems post Viet Nam War. The US Marines did not do this, they continued perfecting sniper rifles and sniper training and that paid huge dividends. Big Army finally got smart on this but it sure was dumb all my 30 years of Army service. SNORT !!

I said that before but I will say it again. In my humble opinion, 1903A4 was one of the best sniper rifles around but not the best "sniper system" if that makes sense... Optic was dragging it down...
I love shooting my 03A4s - they are fully capable of shooting sub moa and 30-06 honestly is extremely solid cartridge. Not as "sexy" as today's "hot and fast" cartridges, but it gets the job done!

 

Nice everything: o3a4, range report, photos, shooting, and set up. Enjoyed sir. Thanks

 

Always figured the army's choice of 2.5 weaver scope was just that it was the cheapest domestic and manufacturing package at the time I imagine...

 

You are not wrong. Part of the problem was rather weak domestic selection, and US military was trying to keep "business" inside the country at that time...but man, can you imagine 1903A4 with Ajack quality glass and No32 turrets combined into the one scope?

 

Did a good start with morning sun, but at time to range, it sure hit us. Thunder and rain, but inbetween, we got some shot of. Steel at 300-400-450 and 600m. No way at 700m , but nice to try ballistic on M84, spot on still. I mangage to get two glue/paint dots inside scope, moving around by recoil. Possible hens to it age ? Well, kinda sharm oldtimer.

 

I know I've said it before, but I am so in awe of your range. I live in the desert, in Arizona, and everywhere I shoot is brown, dusty, hot, and much of the year shooting presents a real wildfire hazard. It has a natural beauty all of its own, but not like yours. And that 03a4 adds nicely to the scenery. Thanks for sharing sir.

 

Both you guys some awesome ranges. Here is the range complex our club uses and Range 4 is the 1000 yd range...my weekends spend there and time well spent.

 

Upside is a full menu of ranges and downside is only use them on weekends. What you guys have is daily access to a place to shoot and that is significant.

 

Isn't that Redfield scope base a mite bit high and the bolt knob swept too far back?

 

It's a faux 03a4

 

The post is origional with the scope and the bolt is stamped B&S with the flaming bomb under it. Brown and Sharp made the bolt. They were made during World War II as repla

cement parts.

 

That bolt isn't correct, but dont take my word for it, here is a side by side, yours and a correct one.

And they never had Winchester A5 scopes on the 03a4

 

the winchester went on the 1903A1 sniper conversion that the marines had in ww2 and Korea, I looked up the B&S bolts. its not a remington bolt for the A4 its the B&S bolt for the A4. B&S was contracted to make replacement parts for the Military during ww2, it has the right markings B&S over the flaming bomb on the bolt handle and a R stamped under the handle.

 

I'm wondering if the gunsmith heated and hammer/bent the scop handle further back to sporterize it further. We were taught to heat and beat in our Conversion Class.

The Winchester A5/Lyman 5A were on the 03 NM rifles used by the USMC, but not the A4. That's not even a Lyman 73B-1/330 scope. Position of the knobs but hey, it's better than nut'n. I picked up a rifle once for $75 ONLY because it had a 330 scope. I dunno if B&S bolts were used on USMC rifles. I strongly doubt it b/c they were NM rifles or rebuilt NM. I doubt if the USMC would swap out bolts. They were cash strapped and would change out barrels to once they figured they were past their service life, but not bolts. We should ask Steve Norton as he's the expert on this subject matter.

RI Auction house images

 

yea it will get me till i can get the correct scope for it, i don't do competition shooting or am I gonna put it up for display in a museum, i use it for reenacting and hunting I don't know if this rifle saw combat or not, I plan on going for a M84 since the it has a better magnification from what I have read, I don't like switching the scopes to go from reenacting to hunting and back. I know the A4 bolts from Remington hard the R under the handle that designated it as a A4 bolt at least from the research I have seen and this B&S does as well as it also has the US Army Ordinance department markings, this might have been a Army rifle from WW2 that stayed stateside idk the Army as far as I know has so many made that there were no real records kept much like the Civil War cannons and rifles.

 

M84 is OK for Korean War, but not dubya-dubya Tue. I still think that bolt handle was altered by a gunsmith. That wasn't uncommon back in the '50s-'60s when people sporterized (butchered) their military rifles. I think what you have is fine for re-enacting.

Gibbs was the company that made replicas; but that bolt of your would not have been used by Gibbs (unless they happened to have it laying around). Somewhere I have a book on that but it's late and night and I'm lazy.

 

ok

 

Rock Ridge made the Gibbs A4 ( and most others ) replica rifles that were commercially produced a decade ago. Seems when the drill A3's dried up, so did Rock Ridge production . The rifle in question with swept back bolt is indeed not configured as the bolts done up by Rock Ridge for Gibbs. That is a small point to note but may have traction because when you replace the scope (as I did on my Gibbs A4) with a larger tube optic like Lyman Alaskan (which was a replacement scope for A4 per TM but use of it is rather foggy / froggy and its CMP authorized for matches), required that I grind bolt handle to fit and clear the Alaskan scope. Would M84 scope not require some bolts to be worked over to clear ? Just a flag on the play if the M84 scope is used. Now...was the bolt altered by Rock Ridge exactly like the real A4 bolt was altered ..are they side by side same....I can't say but if you replace the anemic M73 scope on the rifle , your bolt may not clear the replacement scope you install. Heads up on that.

You get a better field of vision with M84 and Lyman Alaskan scope but you do not get better optic power...its still the anemic 2.5 x like the original M73.

Lastly, and I admit my frustration here, The CMP has waivered a lot of things in its "Vintage Sniper Match" and allowed modern non military scopes to be used on 03A4 type rifles /clones/ replicas. I very much doubt the swept back angle of the bolt is an item of rejection so the bolt in question here is likely just fine for that CMP Fantasy Sniper Rifle Match ...or more accurately CMP Scoped Surplus Rifle Match. Somethings CMP is very anal about...you put a Weaver scope on a Swede 1941 sniper rifle and its not going to be passed as legit but you slap that sucker on a 1903A3 / A4 rifle and its all Okay. Just an example of
how upside down the CMP requirements are. Its broke...

 

Rock Ridge made the Gibbs A4 ( and most others ) replica rifles that were commercially produced a decade ago. Seems when the drill A3's dried up, so did Rock Ridge production . The rifle in question with swept back bolt is indeed not configured as the bolts done up by Rock Ridge for Gibbs. That is a small point to note but may have traction because when you replace the scope (as I did on my Gibbs A4) with a larger tube optic like Lyman Alaskan (which was a replacement scope for A4 per TM but use of it is rather foggy / froggy and its CMP authorized for matches), required that I grind bolt handle to fit and clear the Alaskan scope. Would M84 scope not require some bolts to be worked over to clear ? Just a flag on the play if the M84 scope is used. Now...was the bolt altered by Rock Ridge exactly like the real A4 bolt was altered ..are they side by side same....I can't say but if you replace the anemic M73 scope on the rifle , your bolt may not clear the replacement scope you install. Heads up on that.

You get a better field of vision with M84 and Lyman Alaskan scope but you do not get better optic power...its still the anemic 2.5 x like the original M73.

Lastly, and I admit my frustration here, The CMP has waivered a lot of things in its "Vintage Sniper Match" and allowed modern non military scopes to be used on 03A4 type rifles /clones/ replicas. I very much doubt the swept back angle of the bolt is an item of rejection so the bolt in question here is likely just fine for that CMP Fantasy Sniper Rifle Match ...or more accurately CMP Scoped Surplus Rifle Match. Somethings CMP is very anal about...you put a Weaver scope on a Swede 1941 sniper rifle and its not going to be passed as legit but you slap that sucker on a 1903A3 / A4 rifle and its all Okay. Just an example of
how upside down the CMP requirements are. Its broke...

ok ill get the m73 scope then thank you

 

The Chinese make a replica M73B1/330 scope (as well as replica Lyman Alaskans). GunParts and Hi-Lux sells them.

Products

 

The Chinese make a replica M73B1/330 scope (as well as replica Lyman Alaskans). GunParts and Hi-Lux sells them.

Products

cool

 

1) Go to Products.
2) Click on M73 and one will show up.

 

Somethings CMP is very anal about...you put a Weaver scope on a Swede 1941 sniper rifle and its not going to be passed as legit but you slap that sucker on a 1903A3 / A4 rifle and its all Okay.

...Fwiw, I think the Weaver K4 scope is CMP legal on the Swedish M41/M41B - as listed below.

CMP RIFLE & LEGAL SCOPES
Rifle: M41/ M1B Scopes: AGA 42, AGA 44, Ajack (German), Non-isse: Weaver K4

....My assumption is the original 1941-42 Ajack for an M41B is 4X and its very pricy, so they allow the 'non-issue' 4X Weaver K4 as a more affordable and available substitute, which given its windage adjustments, is a superior scope for the competition.

Indeed, the Weaver K4 is also allowed in the German K98 as well. (The Btitish No 4(T) has a Weaver K3 listed as an "non-issue" alternative scope). Again, my guess is the original WWII era optics for the German, British and Swedish sniper rifles are expensive and somewhat hard to find, so CMP seems to allow the Weaver K4 as the 'non-issue' aka 'poor man's' substitute 4x scope for rifles that had 4x scopes during either WWII or the Korean War (up to 1953). My 2cts.

(see pages 60-62): https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/CMPGamesRules.pdf

Competition Rulebooks - Civilian Marksmanship Program

CMP Competition Rulebooks that govern CMP sponsored and sanctioned competitions are posted here, with downloadable copies.

thecmp.org

 

@mike radford - where did you read that the Lyman was reserved for the M-1C? I know that Lyman shipped 100 Alaskans to Canuckistan for mounting on their No 4 (T) (see Clive Law Without Warning)

 

Probably read it here, maybe from Jim Gaynor. I read much though and quiz every expert I encounter at big shows. Yea, they let a few get to Canada. They need a lot more than 100ish for the A4s and M1Cs. The Weavers could be had when the A4s were ready, the Alaskans were not.

The goal was to have a semi-auto sniper. The A4 was a filler till the Garand sniper issues were resolved. Like Russia and the SVT, Germany with the G-43, a semi-auto with consistent sniper grade accuracy was a bit harder than anticipated. The SVD was a better, later and more successful evolution, later the XM21, etc..

 

Lyman was initially asked to make the scopes for the 1903A4, but they detailed that they could not produce the number required by the dates needed and therefore would decline. That is how Weaver got the contract.

The Lyman Aslaskan was going to be called the M73 scope for the A4. Actually the very first ones were marked M-73 by Lyman, even for the M1C. But lyman still had not shipped the first shipment in Nov 1944. Ordnance changed their mind on the M-73 name and actually directed the scopes to be marked M81 instead. Before they left the factory the few that were marked M-73 had the 73 marked out and the M81 markings applied on the tube. I have one of those scopes.

Ordnance did not receive the first M73/M81 scopes till about December 1944. They detail they put them on the first 350 M1C's and shipped them out by Jan 1945.

The whole reason they the M81 (crosshair) existed is Lyman could not get the tapered posts for the M82 scope, that is why the first ones shipped with crosshairs and why the M81 existed. Ordnance from the beginning did not want the crosshairs, and only wanted post reticules. But they took them because they were in a hurry to get the first Garand snipers to the field.

The M-73 marking, with the 73 marked out.

Here is the M81 marking added. The scope still retains all the original Lyman commercial markings as well.

 

Steve, I see in the document that Lyman was late getting the M1C scopes out and using the desired designation and reticule. It also backs up that Lyman was behind even in late 1944 and that tube stock need be arranged for. I do not see how this tells us why Lyman refused the contract other than the implied reason that they could not supply the larger numbers required for the A4. It does imply another reason they did not accept the contract, showing they were behind. Do we know that an obligation for M1C scopes were not part of the reason for denial? That denial would have to be fairly early 1943ish or earlier to arrange for alternate scopes for the A4s.

A decision to use the Alaskan on the M1C would have to be pretty early so that the scopes would fit the mount that need be produced ASAP. Putting a Weaver 330C in that mount would just not work so a decision on scope tube size would have to be made early so mounts could be designed and planned for.

The timeline and common sense backs up the traditional wisdom I learned long ago. Your post does too, except for reservation of the Lymans for M1C and the M1C being priority. Do we know that the M1C was not priority? If the C was priority having scopes reserved would make sense and assumption could be the source of the traditional wisdom.
The A4 was more of a stop gap being my impression from years of reading. Do we even know that? So many questions.

A book would be great. Please provide a dolly so we can carry it around.

 

Thanks Steve for the more accurate details. At least I was right the Lyman was preferred and sought after and that production could not or would not be provided for the A4. That lead to the use of the Weaver originally on the A4. The document seems to confirm that production of the scopes for the M1C was a bit delayed and having growing pains. Hard working people like you help us continue to learn. I

I also have one of the early M73 scopes with scratched out M73. Is the cut out for fitment of your early M1C mount base/bracket also different than later mounts?

Now, do we have a document that shows the Lymans with a "b" serial number were also used on the M1C or is that also old collector wise tail?

 

Another vote that Steve Norton is awesome and knowledgeable. He needs to write his own book.