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1891 Argentine Mauser - bolt sticking

1.5K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  fguffey  
#1 · (Edited)
I took my project shooting rifle to the range today and had one strange stuck bolt incident.

I shot a total of 20 rounds and when I shot round 18, the bolt would not open. The tables at the range are covered with carpet, so I gave the bolt handle a light bump on the table top. The bolt was able to open, but I had to bump it three or four times to move it to the fully open position. The two rounds after that functioned properly.

The rifle is a project with a mismatched bolt. Using my GO gauge and some steel shims, I was able to determine that the headspace is somewhat tight. The bolt will close on the GO gauge, but not on the GO gauge with even the 0.001 inch shim. I don't think that this is a problem since the PPU ammo I am shooting is about 0.005 shorter than the GO gauge.

Any idea what makes the bolt stick? I have separated the case that stuck and will compare it to the other cases. The ammo was a fresh box of PPU factory ammo, the SP type.

I seem to remember that locking lug setback might cause the bolt to stick, but I would hope that is not the case. Maybe there was a tiny piece of debris that I did not see?

Thanks for any input.

Joe

[edit]

I am not sure if this has any bearing on the incident, but looking at the target that had the problem, there is one flyer out of the four shots. I am not sure if that was the one that stuck since I was flustered by the stuck bolt and did not think to check the target at the time.
 
#2 ·
I examined the case and discovered that the primer is flattened and has a deep hole where the firing pin struck it. You can see right into the inside of the case.

I thought I might have too much firing pin protrusion, but I just measured it and it seems to be 0.044 inches, which is actually less than the 0.055 inch minimum. The other rounds seem to have normal looking primers and a nice dent where they were struck. The firing pin tip and the bolt face show no signs of damage or even much of a dark ring on the bolt face.

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#3 ·
since the ammo was factory stuff, it looks like the pierced primer case had more pressure caused by 'something'. factory ammo has variations, just like anything else. of your pic of three cases together, two of them appear to have fairly flat primers, indicating that that the ammo is creating pressure 'in that rifle'. maybe you should try some handloads, in the 'milder' category.
 
#4 ·
Thanks Frosty.

I so plan to reload with the Hornady round nose bullets, although with the tight headspace and (failed to mention) a replacement barrel with AG marking, maybe I shou!d use Spitzer bullets like a 1909. The rifle has three screw marks on the side where a diopter sight was attached. It probably had been reworked in Argentina for precision shooting. I will make sure that the bullets are not touching the lands in case the chamber is more 1909 size.

Buying ammo, it seemed that the full round was only $0.30 more than a case so I figured to get the ammo and shoot it to form to the rifle then neck size it.
 
#6 ·
I think the firing pin is OK., but I will take the bolt apart for a better look. A few years ago I had a pierced primer with my Turkish Mauser and the tip of the firing pin was damaged. I thought that the firing pin chipped and became sharp and pierced the primer, but maybe it was the other way around and the pierced primer damaged the firing pin.
 
#9 ·
You can't shoot Hornady ammo with LMT rifles without blowing primers. 5.56 and 7.62x51 barrels. Not sure if it's the lack of jump to the rifling causing a pressure spike or what, but assuming that's it in my LMT guns.

Would wonder if you don't have that sort of pressure problem going on. Could also be grease, rust, or extreme copper/lead fouling in bore causing pressure spikes. Primers flatten from pressure, not too much protrusion... so not sure why people are pointing at that honestly...

Stuck casings are usually more of a crapped up/pitted/machine marked/etc problem... The 'stuck bolt' would be more of a case stuck hard stopping primary extraction?

Seems you have pressure issues first. Maybe scrub out the bore (maybe even use some copper solvent?) and measure bullet diameter vs what's spec'd for original military ammo?
 
#11 ·
The few times I`ve pierced primers in my 1891`s I had light puff of gas in the face and escaping gas actually recocked the firing pin, yours may have stuck forward in primer that may be why it was difficult to open it. I have had this happen a few times in my ruger 44 with heavy loads and it ties up the cylinder. Any sign of pinched necks on top of cases like maybe that one case was a bit long?
 
#12 ·
Hmmm, and had a thought... if brass is too soft, might be extra ready to stick into any small mark in chamber and stick.

Would try different ammo before doing anything more than simply cleaning (and inspecting if you can) the chamber.

If there's extra copper or lead fouling in the bore, can also lead to over pressure issues, so maybe time to decopper and maybe even delead the bore... depending what past owners put through it...


And any updates since you posted last?
 
#13 ·
I have not had time to do much on this. I am leaning towards a bad round of ammo and the tip of the pin getting stuck in the hole, a!though it would seem if the protrusion was enough to stick it would have happened more than once.

The barrel is in pretty good shape and I cleaned the daylights out of it with Hopes and Bore Tech Cu2 copper remover before shooting. Cleaning after shooting had dark blue patches, so maybe some copper did build up while shootIng.

When I get the chance to I inspect more or shoot, I will post an update.
 
#14 ·
I don't think that this is a problem since the PPU ammo I am shooting is about 0.005 shorter than the GO gauge.
That is the way it was designed to operate and then reloaders took over the responsibility of sizing the case.

When I size my cases I used the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head to off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face.

F. Guffey