Were the sidearms really only for Komisars and officers? Would the TT-33 be more common in combat , given the quirks of the Nagant revolver? What would pilots of the VVS carry, if anything?
Nagant Revolver vs TT-33, uses, which was more common.
waw44
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Friend who was in Gulf I told me his troop (forget what but he was in intelligence) had M3s in their vehicles - some with cranks !
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My father was a gun and military vehicle designer in the cold war. I was getting subcontracts for fighter plane weapons during the cold war. The Soviets were smart people.
I have a few Nagant revolvers and maybe a dozen T-33 pistols. I have converted the T-33s to 9x23mmWin and worked up to primer pocket failure. That is a great gun design. Also the 91/30 that I have converted to 45/70, 223, 7mmRemMag, and 300Win Mag. Great design. I make an ejector override button to extract unfired 3.34" unfired ammo. But the Nagant revolver is terrible. If I can see that, the smart Russians knew that.
I have a few Nagant revolvers and maybe a dozen T-33 pistols. I have converted the T-33s to 9x23mmWin and worked up to primer pocket failure. That is a great gun design. Also the 91/30 that I have converted to 45/70, 223, 7mmRemMag, and 300Win Mag. Great design. I make an ejector override button to extract unfired 3.34" unfired ammo. But the Nagant revolver is terrible. If I can see that, the smart Russians knew that.
The Nagant m95 was an old fashioned design, even in the mid 1890s-a solid frame, single gate loader-slow and fiddly to load, empty and reload one round at a time-relatively small ammo that doesn't help either, especially wearing gloves in winter or with muddy hands etc-having one more round than most other revolvers was hardly any great advantage. It has to be remembered that pistols had almost no real combat use in WW2 on any side-the Soviets could have been armed with flintlock horse pistols as their hand guns and it would have made no difference to the outcome of any battle.
No hard facts, but I do recall reading when I bought mine that the double action revolvers were reserved for officers and higher ranking NCOs, and single action for enlisted troops who were issued side arms (artillery, tankers, some for guard duties and other specialized roles where a sidearm was better). Might have been the first world war though! I've never seen a single action. Either many were converted during arsenal refinishing or the DAs were the ones that were imported.
Many of the "weak load" stories for the Nagant revolver is due to the currently available new production rounds. They are mainly target rounds and not loaded to Soviet combat round strength. I had to put down a crippled small dog (about 25-30#) and for some reason my Nagant was handy. I had new production target loads... wish I'd picked up anything else, as it took three shots to put the poor thing down. Felt like I added to it's misery instead of putting it out!! Won't make that mistake again!! I've got some H&R .32 magnums for it. Don't seal well, but if needed it will be effective! You can get non-target Nagant loads now, but they are supposedly not as strong as the original military loads, presumably due to the age of the guns. I can't verify that though (if weaker or why).
Many of the "weak load" stories for the Nagant revolver is due to the currently available new production rounds. They are mainly target rounds and not loaded to Soviet combat round strength. I had to put down a crippled small dog (about 25-30#) and for some reason my Nagant was handy. I had new production target loads... wish I'd picked up anything else, as it took three shots to put the poor thing down. Felt like I added to it's misery instead of putting it out!! Won't make that mistake again!! I've got some H&R .32 magnums for it. Don't seal well, but if needed it will be effective! You can get non-target Nagant loads now, but they are supposedly not as strong as the original military loads, presumably due to the age of the guns. I can't verify that though (if weaker or why).
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I saw a video where the body of a lend-lease Hurricane pilot was recovered from a bog. He was carrying a TT33 that was so well preserved by the mud (as was the body) that it looked like it could probably be cleaned and fired as is. But the point of this is that it was issued to pilots apparently
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"Not great, not terrible", to quote the recent movie Chernobyl (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGguge7mPs)
Actually, a really good revolver - compact, firing quite a powerful round. Definitely not terrible.
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The officer's(DA) and soldjier's (SA) models were issued as you described in the Russian Imperial Army.
Soviet made revolvers are DA mode
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I saw that, and it's one data point for the Tokarev. I like old wheel guns, so I bought a 45 Nagant from a forum member here. Will probably see it in a week or two. Already have a 43 Victory and a 40 Enfield No2, so this fits nicely.
There is that famous, perhaps posed, picture of the political officer with a Tokarev, and then there are these...
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There is that famous, perhaps posed, picture of the political officer with a Tokarev, and then there are these...
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Visited a small museum on an airfield in Finland. lots of interesting stuff, including the Tokarev of a Russian pilot who used it to commit suicide when Finnish troops came to capture him. Apparently he believed the Russian propaganda about how the Finns would torture him. John
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The Nagant wasn’t a bad gun... reliably going “bang” every time is the chief desirable attribute in a sidearm, and trumps “tactical reload speed” any day. If a soldier had to worry about reloading his sidearm he was already probably as good as dead anyway. The Tokarev might have been better, but I suspect this advantage existed more on paper than real life.
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Farna I witnessed a destroyed Nagant caused by a 32 H&R mag round. I'd never fire those.
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Handgun is a personal protection weapon of officers and special troops, not a battle weapon. Kill couple of soldiers that went rebellious or kill yourself, that all. And it did the job right.
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The French nettoyers de tranchees, the German Stormtruppen, the Austrian Stosstruppen and the Bulgarian щурмоваци will strongly disagree with you.
Attachments
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As well as Austrian WWI cavalry with what, four of Roth-Steyrs each one of them had? These all are special cases of adapting existing means to new purpose. My point is that back then army handgun purpose (and subsequently requirements) was quite simple - personal protaction of officers/NCO or special troops, i.e. as I said - kill own soldiers or take your life.
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Used in large quantities during The War of Northern Aggression - hardly a special case.
This TT production data stops in 45. They were made post war, mine is a 46
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View attachment 3528733
![Image]()
I got this 1940 for $300 in 2005
View attachment 3528735
![Image]()
I got this 1939 Russian in 2007 for $225
I have the book A collector's guide to Tokarev pistols – 1984
by John Remling (Author)
That book was on a table in a gun show in the 1990s and was very hard to find for a long time. Looks like the printed some more.
I got this 1940 for $300 in 2005
View attachment 3528735
I got this 1939 Russian in 2007 for $225
I have the book A collector's guide to Tokarev pistols – 1984
by John Remling (Author)
That book was on a table in a gun show in the 1990s and was very hard to find for a long time. Looks like the printed some more.
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