[Ishmael]

I stopped at a New Bedford gun store today and looked at a very nice rifle. From my hasty notes, it was marked MA Lithgow SMLE III 1941 on the right wrist band, and MA Lithgow III HV 1941 on the right side of the stock. Serial# 75746, and the bolt was engraved with the matching no. The bore looked very sharp. Sling included.

There was a green stripe about an inch wide painted very neatly around the stock an inch or two back of the grip. I was wondering if this had any significance. I know some British-import US M1903s were painted with a red band to warn against the use of .303 ammo, and I wondered whether the green stripe is a similar warning, or in the vein of the "DP".

Nice rifle...they wanted $350 for it.

Ishmael

 

[theleftboot]

The Australians used the color green to denote rifles issued to cadet schools. Perfectly functional rifles. Personally I would leave the stripe on the rifle as it is part of the history.

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

Green stripe, fully serviceable
Yellow stripe, serviceable but not quite as good
Red stripe, don't let a live round anywhere near it:tisk: (Used strictly for square bashing
British, white stripes, mean the same as red ones
Indian, red-white-red stripes

 

[Ishmael]

Always something interesting to learn here.

Did Australian cadet schools use their rifles for drill only, or were they shot a fair amount?

Is there a history of sellers faking the green stripe in an attempt to upgrade the rifle? I ask because the condition of the stripe was new and unworn and unscratched, compared to the stock which was showing it's age as you would expect.

Ishmael

 

[brit plumber]

Cadet schools would shoot their rifles, hence the grading of the rifles, green for shooting and red, fit for drill only. The only reason I can see to fake a servicable, green stripe, would be to cover a red stripe for drill only. But why do this when you can just sand of the stripe all together. I would think the green stripe is genuine, perhaps the school didn't shoot to often or that gun was at the back of the safe/armoury so was hardly used.

 

[Bindi2]

Green shooting team rifles. yellow drill and general range duty.

 

[rgl3945]

Some of the yellow band rifles we got in the US not only had the stripe, but had the front end dunked into yellow paint. I never saw a red band one for sale, I suspect they would have been much more beat than the green or yellows. Green bands were generally pretty nice looking, I think they took the overall appearance into account also when deciding on the grade. That paint does not really come off without leaving a mark, with the exception of the green paint I took off a brand new 1944, probably because the oil kept it from adhering. It sticks in every little pore, I used a sewing needle to prod most of the pores clean on other rifles. Probably lead based.

 

[4thGordons]

Some of the yellow band rifles we got in the US not only had the stripe, but had the front end dunked into yellow paint. I never saw a red band one for sale

3 ozzies and an Indian

 

[Mag Fed Canuk]

Very informative photos 4th Gordons ! Thank you very much.

 

[Beerhunter]

British, white stripes, mean the same as red ones

Not quite right as far as we are concerned John.

On British DPs the white stripes have the letters "DP" stencilled in black within the white stripes. A white stripes on their own can mean anything.

Second British DPs were not just for square bashing. They were also used for holding, loading, aiming and firing practice with Drill Rounds. In fact anything that did not require the discharge of live or blank rounds.

 

[smzeigler]

Ishmael,

Fair price, but not cheap. However you do live in the New England, so may be a good price in your parts. If anything in the US, I've seen the paint removed particularly on Yellow banded rifles. I think the average gun buyer does not realize the significance or collector value. They then attempt to remove the "unsightly" paint - usually with limited success. Check the assembly number (PAA - can never remember what it stands for) under the bolt handle. Odds are it matches the numbers directly below it on the receiver. If so an added bonus. Well, now I remember you said engraved SN# (do you really mean stamped?), so may not be the case. Anyway, I'd buy it and leave it as it. I have a green band, but have not been able to find a yellow band that was not almost fully removed. Good luck.

Shannon

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

Not quite right as far as we are concerned John.

On British DPs the white stripes have the letters "DP" stencilled in black within the white stripes. A white stripes on their own can mean anything.

Second British DPs were not just for square bashing. They were also used for holding, loading, aiming and firing practice with Drill Rounds. In fact anything that did not require the discharge of live or blank rounds.

Well thery must have missed mine since it only has the white stripes, However my No4 has LT on the buttstock. (line throwing)

 

[Thundercracker]

Hello, I have a few questions if you guys know the answer to, I would be very greatful. While trying to find the history behind my Lee Enfield rifle I came across this board and another which was very similar, I believe that it was a Austrailian cadet rifle. It is marked Lithgow 1943 and on the stock says MA 9/44, unfortunately I believe it was modified by a previous owner. On the stock there is remnants of green paint which is very similar to the paint of other cadet rifle stripes I have seen in photographs (about two Inches wide and just behind the Handel) however most of it appears to have been sanded off. On the bolt handle there is more green paint but it seems to be of a different shade though it could be because it's on metal, and at the end of the barrel there is a dark spot that is about 7 inches long however there is no remains of paint on the wood or metal. If any one knows what this rifle could have been used for or why the variations on the bolt handle and the end of the barrel are there I would love to hear about it, any information is welcome. The second question is about a marking on the receiver above the chamber and just in front of the action it is just a single R, I couldnt find anything about what this marking is or could be for. Again any information is greatly appreciated. The final question is would it be possible to try and restore the lost markings on the stock and front end, however i do not what to cause any further damage and loss of history to the rifle. Thank you for your time and knowledge.

 

[Bindi2]

The R stamp means there is/was rust in the barrel.
The dark mark on the muzzle is where paint has been striped off the rifle. Green on the bolt knob no idea. The colour of the receiver is normal, the trigger guard should be the same.

 

[staffy]

It should not be surprising the green paint should be in better condition than the rest of the rifle, as it would have been applied some time after the rifle had seen service. Generally the Cadets would take greater care/use of their equipment.

 

[Lyman1903]

The R stamp means there is/was rust in the barrel.
The dark mark on the muzzle is where paint has been striped off the rifle. Green on the bolt knob no idea. The colour of the receiver is normal, the trigger guard should be the same.

Is that the correct font for the R ( rust)?

Seems different from most other stamps you see

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

 

[4thGordons]

Is that the correct font for the R ( rust)?

Seems different from most other stamps you see

I believe it is the correct font.
R (standard font) = Replacement Barrel
R (Italic) = Rust found by Armourer

 

[Lyman1903]

I believe it is the correct font.
R (standard font) = Replacement Barrel
R (Italic) = Rust found by Armourer

Thanks for that!

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

 

[Ronbo6]

Some of the yellow band rifles we got in the US not only had the stripe, but had the front end dunked into yellow paint. I never saw a red band one for sale, I suspect they would have been much more beat than the green or yellows. Green bands were generally pretty nice looking, I think they took the overall appearance into account also when deciding on the grade. That paint does not really come off without leaving a mark, with the exception of the green paint I took off a brand new 1944, probably because the oil kept it from adhering. It sticks in every little pore, I used a sewing needle to prod most of the pores clean on other rifles. Probably lead based.

I bought one of those 'yellow-nosed' rifles several years ago. The paint appeared to be a pretty poor grade of housepaint. It was a 1942 Lithgow, that appeared to be fresh off an October 1947 rebuild, INCLUDING getting a brand new barrel.

There was no other paint at all, green, yellow, OR red, on the outside of that rifle.

I got it for cheap from the seller because a poorly-stamped DD on the top of the 'receiver ring' and the yellow paint suggested to him that this was a drill rifle.

Long story short, the receiver marking ended up being conclusively identified as a DD. NOT a drill rifle.

Other from the stains left on the wood from whatever solvents were in the yellow paint, which I removed, (I bought it as a donor rifle for another restoration, but never used any of the parts), it is a pretty nice rifle, and is one of my favorite shooters today.

By the way, the stain from the removed paint reached from the muzzle to about halfway to the lower band. It looks just like the stain on the rifle in post #13.