I have a legendary lawmen commerative and the wood tested positive for salt. Beautiful wood but half of the buttplate rusted away. Some damage to the metal but not bad. Any body else heard of this Gun Parts Inc said winchester wasn't on the list. I bought it as a shooter and is a looker. Sealed the wood and its working so far. What is the trick to remove the forearm.
kuklos
Salt of the Earth Winchesters... Happily Not!
So-called "salt wood" was of course the huge problem of Browning Arms rifles & shotguns principally of the latter sixties. For those not informed. Browning acquired wood which was subjected to "accelerated drying", that is removing moisture from the sawn wood stock blanks through a system of immersing such blanks in salt. Having exactly the desired effect, at a horrible 'byproduct' cost! Retaining salt in the wood and as employed in gunstocks, coming into contact humidity, liberating the salt to attack the rifle metal contacting the wood. A disaster! Browning of those days had no relationship with Winchester other than competing firearm manufacturers. Part of the 'lore' of those days suggesting that the higher grades of wood, most affected. I have a gorgeous Browning of the mid-sixties, exhibiting no such problem. Also a Browning Safari FN action based .458 Win Mag, of '68 vintage, right where the greatest problem to allegedly have been, without such! Decent, but no fancy stock either.
I've never heard of such problem occurring with any Winchester gun. They had enough of their own in Model 94 receiver finish. However salt corrosion, certainly could occur to any gun where metals subject to salt exposure. Conjuring a rifle accidentally dipped into salt water without proper and detailed mitigation of effects afterward; such result.
I don't think this is any 'pattern' of concern to Winchester owners. Rather a 'one-off' kind of casualty which certainly could occur! The real problem that once salt has penetrated gunstocks, there is apparently no cure. Browning invested time and energy toward a solution, principally "sealing & isolation". Unsuccessfully. Ended up withdrawing & replacing a lot of stocks and considerably more than a few barreled actions! In your rifle suggest continued vigilance & immediate remedial action as only long term solution.
Sorry to learn of your problem, but presumably you knew of such in acquiring the rifle. Below my Legendary Lawman, of 1977, exhibiting no such issue. On other hand, decent wood but nothing special!
Best, John
Addendum notation re below photo. Actual color is dull silver & blue. Please ignore false 'goldish' coloration.
So-called "salt wood" was of course the huge problem of Browning Arms rifles & shotguns principally of the latter sixties. For those not informed. Browning acquired wood which was subjected to "accelerated drying", that is removing moisture from the sawn wood stock blanks through a system of immersing such blanks in salt. Having exactly the desired effect, at a horrible 'byproduct' cost! Retaining salt in the wood and as employed in gunstocks, coming into contact humidity, liberating the salt to attack the rifle metal contacting the wood. A disaster! Browning of those days had no relationship with Winchester other than competing firearm manufacturers. Part of the 'lore' of those days suggesting that the higher grades of wood, most affected. I have a gorgeous Browning of the mid-sixties, exhibiting no such problem. Also a Browning Safari FN action based .458 Win Mag, of '68 vintage, right where the greatest problem to allegedly have been, without such! Decent, but no fancy stock either.
I've never heard of such problem occurring with any Winchester gun. They had enough of their own in Model 94 receiver finish. However salt corrosion, certainly could occur to any gun where metals subject to salt exposure. Conjuring a rifle accidentally dipped into salt water without proper and detailed mitigation of effects afterward; such result.
I don't think this is any 'pattern' of concern to Winchester owners. Rather a 'one-off' kind of casualty which certainly could occur! The real problem that once salt has penetrated gunstocks, there is apparently no cure. Browning invested time and energy toward a solution, principally "sealing & isolation". Unsuccessfully. Ended up withdrawing & replacing a lot of stocks and considerably more than a few barreled actions! In your rifle suggest continued vigilance & immediate remedial action as only long term solution.
Sorry to learn of your problem, but presumably you knew of such in acquiring the rifle. Below my Legendary Lawman, of 1977, exhibiting no such issue. On other hand, decent wood but nothing special!
Best, John
Addendum notation re below photo. Actual color is dull silver & blue. Please ignore false 'goldish' coloration.
Attachments
Taste tested. 
I have heard a drop of silver nitrate being used but I have not ever tried.
John
I have heard a drop of silver nitrate being used but I have not ever tried. John
Browning was not the only manufacturer that suffered from the salt-wood debacle. Salt wood has been known to turn up on several makes of fine guns for years after the initial Browning fiasco.....mainly on guns with finer grade wood. I own a Ruger No.1 B rifle with a really nice grained butt-stock that I'm certain is salty. That Ruger date to like 1981 or so....a decade or so after the initial salt wood events.
Online somewhere I saw a list of manufacturers that could be affected by the issue and it listed Ruger but I don't recall if Winchester was on the list. My guess is that any gun with a awesome wood stock from the 60's/70's/80's may have the possibility for bad wood.
My first clue that something was amiss with my Ruger No.1 was some rusty spots on the right rear of the receiver where the wood and metal meet. Clean it up and it would rust right back....so I pulled the butt-stock and it was pretty badly eaten-up on the right rear of the action and tang...lesser rust damage on the left side....the buttplate/pad screws were rusty(another clue they say to salt wood).
My guess is that whoever cut and cured the salt cured walnut or ended up with bad wood kept peddling it where possible.
I do pull my rifles butt stock on occasion and inspect for more rust...but it seems to have stabilized and I don't think my wood is heavily salted...but as I said the damage is done....there is really deep pitting on the right rear of my receiver and tang....not so bad on the other side...front wood is fine.
I laboriously picked the rust from my receiver....picked the embedded rust from my stock...sealed the inletting with poly and keep the inletting and receiver well greased.
I've mentioned this affliction on my Ruger No.1 and other fans of the Ruger single-shots claim it never happened!!...No way a Ruger got salt wood!!...I must have really corrosive sweat that only rusts Ruger No.1 steel??
Online somewhere I saw a list of manufacturers that could be affected by the issue and it listed Ruger but I don't recall if Winchester was on the list. My guess is that any gun with a awesome wood stock from the 60's/70's/80's may have the possibility for bad wood.
My first clue that something was amiss with my Ruger No.1 was some rusty spots on the right rear of the receiver where the wood and metal meet. Clean it up and it would rust right back....so I pulled the butt-stock and it was pretty badly eaten-up on the right rear of the action and tang...lesser rust damage on the left side....the buttplate/pad screws were rusty(another clue they say to salt wood).
My guess is that whoever cut and cured the salt cured walnut or ended up with bad wood kept peddling it where possible.
I do pull my rifles butt stock on occasion and inspect for more rust...but it seems to have stabilized and I don't think my wood is heavily salted...but as I said the damage is done....there is really deep pitting on the right rear of my receiver and tang....not so bad on the other side...front wood is fine.
I laboriously picked the rust from my receiver....picked the embedded rust from my stock...sealed the inletting with poly and keep the inletting and receiver well greased.
I've mentioned this affliction on my Ruger No.1 and other fans of the Ruger single-shots claim it never happened!!...No way a Ruger got salt wood!!...I must have really corrosive sweat that only rusts Ruger No.1 steel??
I think Winchester may have had a similar problem with the wood on some of their commemorative issues. I know some of the Texas Ranger Commemorative from 1975 had that problem.
Dan
Dan
Rising to differ with apparent conclusions put forth by certain Right Honorable Members espousing "salt wood" infestation involving many stocks. (Maybe been watching the British House of Commons Brexit debates perhaps too closely lately. Huh?)
The apparently and sadly logical proposition 'all salt wood stocks cause firearm corrosion...' Materially differing from... 'all firearm corrosion caused by salt wood stocks'.
A grand experiment gone terribly wrong. An industry standard, not! Not even a 'trend'. Ostensibly limited to Browning and not simply harvesting "salt wood" forests. Rather the intentional exposure to stock-wood blanks to salt for the very purpose of more rapidly drawing moisture; in effect "curing" the wood more quickly to enhance rapid utilization. I know of no other firearms firm engaging in such process and after Browning fiasco, well exposed, rather unbelievable any would!
The incidental migration of salt into wood of course another matter. Good maintenance normally sufficing to eliminate and at that, conjuring a maritime environment such as shipboard service predicate.
We do know that for any salt encumbered gun, there are infinitely more suffering the stock line 7 below corrosion described without salt playing any ostensible part. Such simply from humidity; condensation from atmospheric causes. Humid climates yielding considerably higher corrosion rates that dry ones. Add poor maintenance practices, the other 'non-salt wood' attribute.
The idea of viewing such as many of the military surplus rifles coming from Latin America, for instance, and pronouncing "salt wood", a considerable error.
My position concerning other than occasional circumstances yielding salt proximate to firearms; a corrosion 'causation' non-event.
The classic Missouri "show me"; facts & scientific evidence please. Such concerning other firearm firms adopting methodology leading to infusion of salt into firearms wood components.
My take
The apparently and sadly logical proposition 'all salt wood stocks cause firearm corrosion...' Materially differing from... 'all firearm corrosion caused by salt wood stocks'.
A grand experiment gone terribly wrong. An industry standard, not! Not even a 'trend'. Ostensibly limited to Browning and not simply harvesting "salt wood" forests. Rather the intentional exposure to stock-wood blanks to salt for the very purpose of more rapidly drawing moisture; in effect "curing" the wood more quickly to enhance rapid utilization. I know of no other firearms firm engaging in such process and after Browning fiasco, well exposed, rather unbelievable any would!
The incidental migration of salt into wood of course another matter. Good maintenance normally sufficing to eliminate and at that, conjuring a maritime environment such as shipboard service predicate.
We do know that for any salt encumbered gun, there are infinitely more suffering the stock line 7 below corrosion described without salt playing any ostensible part. Such simply from humidity; condensation from atmospheric causes. Humid climates yielding considerably higher corrosion rates that dry ones. Add poor maintenance practices, the other 'non-salt wood' attribute.
The idea of viewing such as many of the military surplus rifles coming from Latin America, for instance, and pronouncing "salt wood", a considerable error.
My position concerning other than occasional circumstances yielding salt proximate to firearms; a corrosion 'causation' non-event.
The classic Missouri "show me"; facts & scientific evidence please. Such concerning other firearm firms adopting methodology leading to infusion of salt into firearms wood components.
My take
My comment about the Texas Ranger commemorative was from the experience of a friend of mine. He had bought one in the early 1980s still in an unopened box that had been bought new by an investor/ collector. It had always been stored in a climate controlled environment. He decided to open the box and check the carbine and that's when he discovered the rust at the tang and a slight warp to the stock. He wrote Winchester and they had him return the rifle for repair. It was returned with a new stock and the receiver had been refinished. I have no pictures just experience. Take it with a grain of salt for what it's worth.
Regards
Dan
Regards
Dan
Again, "salt wood" was the result of a particular, apparently 'one off' curing process to which Browning either authorized or tacitly accepted. I've not heard of any other such intentional "salt drying" process for stock wood. That perhaps some of those blanks made their way into general commerce, possible. That someone else may have emulated the process, possibly. But the pivotal matter of analysis here, the fact that we're speaking of a gun of different manufacture, decades later, without any rash of similar problems within that era reported. The 'odds' simply seeming far, far more likely some matter other than salt infused into the stock wood.
Yet... Perhaps some such as 'Kyber Pass' manufacturing never having heard of the Browning debacle, and translating "seasoned" wood to salt, pepper, local spices, etc.
Best!
John
Yet... Perhaps some such as 'Kyber Pass' manufacturing never having heard of the Browning debacle, and translating "seasoned" wood to salt, pepper, local spices, etc.
Best!
John
Ruger did have some salt cured wood get into their wood inventory.
#1 rifles with the rust problems are around.
Gun companys don't cut their own timber, dry it and cut it into blanks and dry it further.
They buy it in blank form and turn it themselves. Many buy the finished turned stocks from a vendor source and simply final fit the wood and finish it.
They have no idea of the original source. If the wood is a European Walnut variety, they generally do not want to know where it was cut.
Extra fancy Euro walnut is crazy expensive.
American Walnut not too awful far behind it now.
A wood buyer for a Firearms Co happening upon a great deal on a train car load of those stock blanks at a good price would be crazy to pass them up. But are they all air dried like the few stacked in the front? Or are the bulk of them salt cured and once they are bought, turned and finished, the customer is one that finds out the flaw.
Salt curing wood was not a new idea when Browning/FN did it. Stacking the new blanks and shoveling rock salt onto them, then another layer of blanks,,another layer of salt,,ect.
In a short time the salt draws the moisture out of the wood and 'water' runs out from the wood&salt pile like gutter downspouts all around it.
Pretty neat!,,Quick and easy. A $$ maker for sure.
The cabinet industry had used the idea for a long time to dry wood for their use and it's been successful at it. No iron fittings generally on fancy cabinetry.
Some French and Belgian shotguns from the post WW1 era will be found with gross rusting of internal parts surfaces including the inner edges of the frame and tangs. Again salt cured wood at work. Not usually fancy wood nor fancy guns either. Just plain working guns w/ plain or semi fancy wood.
t
#1 rifles with the rust problems are around.
Gun companys don't cut their own timber, dry it and cut it into blanks and dry it further.
They buy it in blank form and turn it themselves. Many buy the finished turned stocks from a vendor source and simply final fit the wood and finish it.
They have no idea of the original source. If the wood is a European Walnut variety, they generally do not want to know where it was cut.
Extra fancy Euro walnut is crazy expensive.
American Walnut not too awful far behind it now.
A wood buyer for a Firearms Co happening upon a great deal on a train car load of those stock blanks at a good price would be crazy to pass them up. But are they all air dried like the few stacked in the front? Or are the bulk of them salt cured and once they are bought, turned and finished, the customer is one that finds out the flaw.
Salt curing wood was not a new idea when Browning/FN did it. Stacking the new blanks and shoveling rock salt onto them, then another layer of blanks,,another layer of salt,,ect.
In a short time the salt draws the moisture out of the wood and 'water' runs out from the wood&salt pile like gutter downspouts all around it.
Pretty neat!,,Quick and easy. A $$ maker for sure.
The cabinet industry had used the idea for a long time to dry wood for their use and it's been successful at it. No iron fittings generally on fancy cabinetry.
Some French and Belgian shotguns from the post WW1 era will be found with gross rusting of internal parts surfaces including the inner edges of the frame and tangs. Again salt cured wood at work. Not usually fancy wood nor fancy guns either. Just plain working guns w/ plain or semi fancy wood.
t
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
