Hello everyone,

For about a decade I was super active on GB. As we do, my focus shifted, and i let my C&R expired several years back. Now, I'm wondering what the current environment is with USPS for selling. I sold a dozen or so times with GB members and never experienced a problem. However, my C&R was current then.
I'm in California. Have things changed? What are things I might have missed and now need to know?
Thank you everyone.
--Jim

are you asking if you can use the usps to ship your guns. i was told by my local post office i could not . ive bought alot of broomhandles using my c and r and seems like they where all shipped fedx.

 

You (non licensed) can ship “guns” USPS if they are rifles and shotguns. Handguns can ship USPS only dealer to dealer.
Legal and allowed but expedited resistance happens from ill educated employees at the Post Office.

 

ATF site reads:

"A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state."

Link:

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state. The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any...

www.atf.gov

I have my FFL do my shipping at any rate. They change the regulations so dang often, what was a felony yesterday is fine and dandy today. Who knows what we will be allowed to do tomorrow.

 

Just had a nice discussion about this topic with my local post office last week. Two separate local post offices refused to ship a long arm from licensee to licensee. Talked to the post office on base and she pulled the book out and read the reg. Said yes you can. She called the problem branch and really let them have it and read the rules word for word to them. Took the rifle back to the original post office and the guy shipped it out, begrudgingly. He was the same jerk who wouldnt let me ship a kitchen knife back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement

Here is a link to their rules. It reads just like it used to a few years back before it became such a hassle.

432 Mailability | Postal Explorer

pe.usps.com

 

Just had a nice discussion about this topic with my local post office last week. Two separate local post offices refused to ship a long arm from licensee to licensee. Talked to the post office on base and she pulled the book out and read the reg. Said yes you can. She called the problem branch and really let them have it and read the rules word for word to them. Took the rifle back to the original post office and the guy shipped it out, begrudgingly. He was the same jerk who wouldnt let me ship a kitchen knife back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement

Here is a link to their rules. It reads just like it used to a few years back before it became such a hassle.

432 Mailability | Postal Explorer

pe.usps.com

You're fortunate he didn't somehow put in a corner or beat it against a wall prior to shipping.
Richard

 

Change? Just went to the URL from Post #6 above and here is what is stated:
"A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state."

So, as it has been for many years, on the Federal level, a person whom can legally own firearms may, without a license, ship a rifle/shotgun to a Federal licensee. This would require proof of a signed/dated copy of their FFL and/or online verification of same. Obviously, depending what you ship, restrictions on the state level at either end could come into play and be a issue. I think the allowance for a non-licensee to send out a firearm for repair to a licensed gunsmith and have it returned directly to the owner is also valid. Again, state restrictions could be a issue. However, if I am in error, have yet to see official evidence presented here to the contrary.

"The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. [18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]"

Have been hearing about rogue USPS local office postmasters declining to follow their own, written procedures when it comes to shipping firearms for years. Some people go out of their way to another P.O. to sidestep these arrogant Federal employees. I would like to see them reported and corrective action taken. They work for US!

Some prefer to take a firearm to a dealer, have them log it in, prep & then pay the dealer's fee and shipping cost to the receiving licensee. BTW, regarding the OP's mention about California, their firearms laws are written on quicksand... they ebb and flow to the point that it is a challenge for most people to figure anything out (which is exactly their aim)! Probably checking with one of the .orgs like the C.P.R.A. would likely save a lot of time and provide current status.

 

you, an individual, can ship a long gun, to a licensee
but, if you have to file a claim, they will want a 1508 form, which is usually only for handguns from license to license,

just an FYI,

 

you, an individual, can ship a long gun, to a licensee
but, if you have to file a claim, they will want a 1508 form, which is usually only for handguns from license to license,

just an FYI,

So as an non FFL you will swear on the 1508 (a form for FFL to FFL shipments) that you ARE a licensed dealer?

 

My policy for shipping rifles and pistols is quite simple "dont ask...dont tell". Been doing it for 22 years with no issues.

 

This.

I would argue 99% of lost firearms or mail-related issues are because guys don't bother to research or make the labels prior to shipping.

Almost every lost firearm I have heard of or issue with a carriers has been because a seller walked into a retail location.
The retail UPS, FEDEX and USPS workers do not know the rules. Those same workers are prone to mistakes adding addresses and services.
You also do not need to tell them the contents of your parcel -- they may have a company internal regulation for this, but I have shipped many times without them ever asking. On the few times they do, I just say "Tools" and they do not ask anything else (technically I am being vague, but not lying).

I have always used USPS for rifles/shotguns, it is legal. Only one time did a rifle get 'lost' for 2-3 weeks before it was finally delivered. Never had anything actually get lost or stolen, because I make sure to get the addresses correct and require an adult signature when I make the label. I do that critical part myself.

The one time I had an issue with the 'rules' was when I went to ship a handgun FEDEX.
My mistake was doing this in Connecticut (extremely anti-gun) and actually telling the manager it was a pistol.
He argued with my for 20 minutes that it was illegal, until he broke out his store policy book and admitted it wasn't. But then only would ship it same-day, which costs hundreds of dollars.

I took it to a different store up the road and they shipped it priority as I wanted it, and didn't ask any questions.

 

another change, that may be local,

lost a firearm in transit, after a period of time it was found, and returned to me, opened, by the local inspector, maybe 4 yrs ago

lost another this past winter, it sat somewhere for 3 months, then was delivered back to me by a carrier, (not my normal mail lady, she was out)

both were reported lost to the local police and ATF,

 

I looked back into my situation that came up a long time ago, and it stemmed from me (a non-licensee) mailing an antique rifle to an out of state non-licensee private individual.

Around the time that I mailed the rifle, the regulations did indeed change so that UPS and Fedex would no longer allow non-licensees to mail firearms, period.

UPS:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms

Fedex:

FedEx | System Down

USPS is the only way for a non-licensee to mail any firearm. My previous post stills stands in that people should do their own research, but yes the initial portion was incorrect. My following post corrected what I had said. If someone only reads half a book, it's not the author's fault they came away with the wrong idea.

 

Not my fault if people like yourself don’t read my following post.

There is an "EDIT" feature to correct any post you make.
Others have linked your uncorrected post as they believed it was accurate., but it is incorrect.

Making yet another post to correct a previous incorrect one is not the best course of action.
The edit function eliminates confusion.

 

Mailable Matter is fully explained in a big book in every Post Office. Ask for and READ the Domestic Mail Manual (DMM). Most postal employees have never had the time to read and understand all the DMM contains. Do not argue with a clerk, Read the DMM.

Webley

 

You USED to be able to ship firearms through USPS, but that is no longer the case.

Wrong. Very wrong. You should have stopped at the part where you said, “Get familiar with the regulations” (and taken your own advice). 🙄

Thank you. This is the sort of thing I was hoping to learn without spending a week trying to interpret the the ATF Regs ony own.
I appreciate your response.
--Jim

As noted, this advice was wrong. If you’re going to listen to anyone on this thread, let it be @Lyman1903 .

 

Wrong. Very wrong. You should have stopped at the part where you said, “Get familiar with the regulations” (and taken your own advice). 🙄

As noted, this advice was wrong. If you’re going to listen to anyone on this thread, let it be @Lyman1903 .

Was a mis-edit when I first revised it, but reads correct now "... firearms through shippers other than USPS..." (what I meant). Reading my very next post quoting those regulations had the context of what I was saying though. I do appreciate the callout though. And I did read the regulations myself, thanks. Seems most don't. Or do, and don't care.

Again, you are incorrect. You are spreading company policies like it is the law.

You CAN ship a firearm or “firearm product” with Fedex or UPS. But they don’t want you to do it as a non-FFL, and they will not help you if it gets lost. There is no law or regulation prohibiting it.

You CAN take extra ketchup packets from McDonalds, but the company policy may only limit you to two.

My recommendation is to edit or delete your initial post and not try to speak on topics you don’t fully understand.

UPS:
Packages that contain any of the prohibited articles listed in the applicable Service Guide or the Terms are subject to additional charges, including but not limited to a Prohibited Item fee. Packages that contain restricted articles not in compliance with all UPS policies and procedures and applicable laws and regulations are also subject to additional charges, including but not limited to a Prohibited Item fee, if found in the UPS system. Such charges apply in addition to all other applicable Charges and in addition to any other rights to recovery UPS may have under the Terms or applicable law or regulation. UPS reserves the right in its sole and unlimited discretion to dispose of such Packages, submit such Packages to governmental authorities, or return such Packages to the Shipper solely at the Shipper’s risk and expense. The Shipper shall remain responsible for all Charges whether or not such Packages are delivered. The Shipper agrees to reimburse UPS for any costs or expenses incurred as a result of Shipper tendering any such Packages to UPS, including but not limited to all disposal fees.

A little more serious than 3 ketchup packets. Also, UPS has the right to inspect any packages mailed with them without your consent. Can you read that yourself or do you need me to link that too? If your method is to be 'vague' so as to not 'lie', you are already mailing in bad faith because you know what's in the package. If you do get caught, please let me know how your 'playing dumb' trick worked out. Until then, you might want to let the adults do the talking on what is and is not correct.


Some folks on this forum must be the 'fact-checkers' from the media I've heard so much about. Whatever you do, don't listen to internet people and read from the source material (which have all been linked for USPS, Fedex, UPS, and the ATF). If you read the rules or regulations and don't understand them, bring them to the postmaster or help counter and have them explain it. Considering that mailing a firearm the wrong way can be a felony, you shouldn't hang your hat on the advice of the 'wise guys' found here, or on any other forum.

For example; if you ask in a thread whether or not you can mail a rifle that has a receiver date of '1899' directly to someone's front door, and some old fart tells you 'Yes'. Only that that old fart forgot that the 'antique' cutoff is date is 1898, and not just 'pre-1900'. If that were to get caught for any reason, a prosecuting attorney won't be so "free-thinking" as some of the folks here, and playing dumb as MikeIke suggested won't work very well. The details between 1898 and 1899 matter, as do the shipping regulations (which change often). The odds of getting caught shipping wrong are low, but not zero. I once had an interested buyer here on gunboards ask me to ship an 1899 Gewehr 98 directly to him "because 8's sometimes look like 9's" (exactly what he said to me). I am not willing to commit a felony for the convenience of some random internet guy wanting to save $20 for an FFL fee. The amount of confessions in this thread of how some people ship their guns goes to show many people disregard the consequences of what they are doing to just save a small FFL fee and bank on luck that it will pay off. As far as I'm concerned, the mods should delete all the responses in this thread except for the links to the rules & regulations for the shipping companies and ATF. Just because someone has a way of doing things that has worked for them before, doesn't mean it is the right way to do it.

For someone who wants to do things the right way, get familiar with the rules yourself, or have an FFL ship for you to take that liability off your shoulders. Heck pass the shipping fee on to the buyer - no skin off your back either way.

 

UPS:
Packages that contain any of the prohibited articles listed in the applicable Service Guide or the Terms are subject to additional charges, including but not limited to a Prohibited Item fee. Packages that contain restricted articles not in compliance with all UPS policies and procedures and applicable laws and regulations are also subject to additional charges, including but not limited to a Prohibited Item fee, if found in the UPS system. Such charges apply in addition to all other applicable Charges and in addition to any other rights to recovery UPS may have under the Terms or applicable law or regulation. UPS reserves the right in its sole and unlimited discretion to dispose of such Packages, submit such Packages to governmental authorities, or return such Packages to the Shipper solely at the Shipper’s risk and expense. The Shipper shall remain responsible for all Charges whether or not such Packages are delivered. The Shipper agrees to reimburse UPS for any costs or expenses incurred as a result of Shipper tendering any such Packages to UPS, including but not limited to all disposal fees.

A little more serious than 3 ketchup packets. Also, UPS has the right to inspect any packages mailed with them without your consent. Can you read that yourself or do you need me to link that too? If your method is to be 'vague' so as to not 'lie', you are already mailing in bad faith because you know what's in the package. If you do get caught, please let me know how your 'playing dumb' trick worked out. Until then, you might want to let the adults do the talking on what is and is not correct.


Some folks on this forum must be the 'fact-checkers' from the media I've heard so much about. Whatever you do, don't listen to internet people and read from the source material (which have all been linked for USPS, Fedex, UPS, and the ATF). If you read the rules or regulations and don't understand them, bring them to the postmaster or help counter and have them explain it. Considering that mailing a firearm the wrong way can be a felony, you shouldn't hang your hat on the advice of the 'wise guys' found here, or on any other forum.

For example; if you ask in a thread whether or not you can mail a rifle that has a receiver date of '1899' directly to someone's front door, and some old fart tells you 'Yes'. Only that that old fart forgot that the 'antique' cutoff is date is 1898, and not just 'pre-1900'. If that were to get caught for any reason, a prosecuting attorney won't be so "free-thinking" as some of the folks here, and playing dumb as MikeIke suggested won't work very well. The details between 1898 and 1899 matter, as do the shipping regulations (which change often). The odds of getting caught shipping wrong are low, but not zero. I once had an interested buyer here on gunboards ask me to ship an 1899 Gewehr 98 directly to him "because 8's sometimes look like 9's" (exactly what he said to me). I am not willing to commit a felony for the convenience of some random internet guy wanting to save $20 for an FFL fee. The amount of confessions in this thread of how some people ship their guns goes to show many people disregard the consequences of what they are doing to just save a small FFL fee and bank on luck that it will pay off. As far as I'm concerned, the mods should delete all the responses in this thread except for the links to the rules & regulations for the shipping companies and ATF. Just because someone has a way of doing things that has worked for them before, doesn't mean it is the right way to do it.

For someone who wants to do things the right way, get familiar with the rules yourself, or have an FFL ship for you to take that liability off your shoulders. Heck pass the shipping fee on to the buyer - no skin off your back either way.

It's great that you can re-hash a company policy. But my point stands -- it is NOT against the law. Nothing in your response makes you look any smarter than the last handful of incorrect and poorly thought out posts in this thread.

There are PLENTY of people on this board with more experience than you in shipping firearms / parts. Swallow that pill first before trying again.

And if you want to double down -- I work in logistics. I spent years at DHL, truckers brokers, freight forwarders and other carriers. The legalese you are regurgitating here does not present the reality on the ground. 99.99999% of the time if you ship a firearm with UPS / Fedex, it will arrive without issue if you ship it yourself.
If it is stolen or lost and disclosed to be a firearm, they will not assist you. You will not get a lawsuit on your hands, and I highly doubt they would bother to try and seek reimbursement from you when there is none to be claimed by shipping a firearm. Find me an example that says otherwise.

Consider why those policies are written -- is it for legal articles like firearms, or is it illegal items that induce a lot more legal liability like drugs or explosives?

You've already proven you have no idea what you are writing in this thread, as others have also pointed out. So why bother trying to teach calculus to a monkey. Last word is yours.

 

Years of experience doing a job, doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. If anything saying you have the same job as a USPS employee doesn't help your case. But if you are interested in careers, mine is in engineering where we get paid for doing things by the book to solve problems. I had an issue with a customs agent at the border telling me that a friend needed a stamp in their passport for an ESTA visa. Went on and on about how he had been doing his job for 12 years and 'always needs to see a stamp'. Well, ESTA = Electronic System for Travel Authorization. The clown had been working for 12 years at the border and didn't know about electronic visas - his supervisor let us through. That to say work experience doesn't mean wisdom, politicians prove that point all day. At that, saying you and others have "more experience" than I do, yet you have no idea what my experience is other than the one particular example I shared for others to learn from is another display of you making up 'wisdom' with no facts; just pure opinion. I'm quoting policy and you're making up an imaginary backstory because I am proving you wrong.

Whether you are breaking the law or a company policy when shipping a firearm, the purpose of this thread was 'what is the right thing to do' or 'what are you allowed to do that doesn't cause trouble' - not 'what can I get away with'. You seem to be very adamantly set on the latter.

You also do not need to tell them the contents of your parcel -- they may have a company internal regulation for this, but I have shipped many times without them ever asking. On the few times they do, I just say "Tools" and they do not ask anything else (technically I am being vague, but not lying).

The quality of your advice speaks for itself.

The legalese you are regurgitating here does not present the reality on the ground. 99.99999% of the time if you ship a firearm with UPS / Fedex, it will arrive without issue if you ship it yourself.

Yes, you can usually get away with doing the wrong thing, and like I had said it doesn't make it the right thing. There is a correct way of doing things, which is why I quote the 'legalese'. It's quite baffling that you are so quick to disregard the source material that answers the OP's question, and think that it is justified by saying that 'you can almost always ignore it'.

Some people gather information to learn from, and others.... talk.

 

UPS does not accept firearms for shipment from non-licensed individuals. Another way of saying that, is that you are 'prohibited' from shipping a firearm without a license. If you have a license, it is not prohibited. Firearms are not blanket prohibited from shipping by all people. A firearm is a prohibited item if you ship it without a license. This is not complicated.

2025 UPS® Tariff/Terms & Conditions of Service - section 3.1:

Items Not Accepted for Transportation No service shall be rendered in the transportation of any of the prohibited articles listed in the applicable Service Guide or the Terms.
UPS does not accept for transportation, and Shippers are prohibited from shipping:
– Shipments tendered (including preprocessed drop offs) to a Third-Party Retailer or UPS Access Point® location containing any hazardous materials requiring shipping papers, ammunition, or Firearm Products, (with the exception that pre-processed Firearm Products that otherwise comply with these Terms may be dropped off at The UPS Store locations). These prohibitions also apply to shipments delivered to a Third-Party Retailer or UPS Access Point location, except for ammunition that satisfies all requirements for the shipment of ammunition set forth in Section 3.7.2 (“Ammunition”), including qualifying for the exception for Limited Quantity packages; – UPS Returns® Services Shipments containing hazardous materials (except for Limited Quantity Ground Packages, as set forth below), or firearms, or Signature Required services;

If you are prohibited from shipping an item in a certain circumstance, that is a prohibited item. How in the world are you saying that that is a misunderstanding?

2+2

 

Enough double talk in this post for me. I know how to read and understand the ins and outs of firearms shipping. I understand regulations and laws and the difference between them. Thank you all.

I’m done.