Very nice, mauser99. It would be interesting to know the serial blocks for the Simson/BSW various models. I have a bsw dsm with some Simson-marked parts in the low 133,000 range. Some of the W625 s/n were close to 200,000, if I recall.

 

Yes, you are correct. The w625L I just sold on the trader to buy the one shown was 198XXX or close to it. "I have it written down not with me". I recently found that this w625L was not know to me before this. I thought it was a 'c' but, after looking it's an 'L'.. It also has a 1" longer barrel like I mentioned. I think they were the last variation right up to the kkw change over. I have yet to see a w625 made after the change. These ''L' rifles are hard to find. But, I've seen three in a short time. They have the distinct round 'bsw' srcipt just like the kkw.. This example I have is police marked.

 

serial ranges

here is a pic. I will add info later. Here are some serial blocks. as has been noted there are certain breaks in the chain. Simson alloted blocks for other rifles they made. 617k being one.
simson 625- 107329,114571
simson 625a- 119377
simson 625b- 137739
bsw 625b- 158134
bsw-625c-168912,169043, 182788
bsw 625L-185363,194467,195579

bsw 317k-- 182026 sporting rifle, these were alloted their own serial blocks within 625 production. a trait used by simson/bsw/gusloff
simson dsm-34-123000 found on gun-broker.heavily sporterized,#131125 auctio arms.simson dsm #126120
bsw dsm-34-133000 bsw dsm-34 176840

 

Mauser 99,

Thanks for a wonderful post. I'm the proud owner of a Simson 625 and I'm trying to talk a co-worker out of a Simson 625 B. It's inspiring to see your beautiful collection.

Thanks for sharing!

Sincerely,

Joel N.
"Yog" (in Alaska)
"Molon Labe!"

 

625's

if you like pm me the serial # and i'll add it to my data base. It's an interesting series of rifles that are undervalued and not much is know about them.

 

Mauser 99, here are some serials for your data base. I should come to this forum more often!

W625B BSW #162246
W625B BSW #163369 EAGLE/K
W625B simpson #130935
W625A simpson #119196 prize rifle
W625 simpson #107073
W625 simpson #109769

 

Thanks

Thanks for all you're postive comments. I really started collecting these trainers within the last few years. I can still afford to piece together a representitive collection. As their bigger brother 'k98's' are getting 'out of control' price wise. I'm glad I put that collection togther years back.. By all means please add to this post ! We can all inform 'ourselves'while we wait for Simpsons book to come out !!!

 

Hey mauser99,

Here's a few more numbers for your data base.

W625 - 115727 Simpson
W625B - 138971 Simpson Presentation
W625B - 161662 BSW SA Gruppe Kurpfalz
W625C - 194393 BSW
W625Z - 162115 BSW

Hopefully, Bob's book will be finished soon!!!! Hey Bob! (hint) (hint)

 

Book?!

Friends,

Is someone writing a book on these fabulous rifles?

Please tell me that this is truth and not a "tease".

Sincerely,

Joel N.
"Yog" (in Alaska)
"Molon Labe!"

 

Yes I Am

Friends,

Is someone writing a book on these fabulous rifles?

Please tell me that this is truth and not a "tease".

Sincerely,

Joel N.
"Yog" (in Alaska)
"Molon Labe!"

I am currently working on a book with the help of Jim Whitley and Richard Carey. It is full color and will be about 400 pages.

 

Hello mauser99,

Just joined this website, and am interested in almost all millitary firearms.

Have a Simson Model W635 rifle, as marked on receiver, serial number 118734, properly marked Fluss- Krupp-Essen, followed by the 4 point diamond on top of the barrel, and Kal. 22 long rifle, on left side of barrel, on right side 5.4mm, and the crown B crown U , which is also marked on the right side of receiver , too, next to the Simson logo with the S inside of the triangle, inside of the circle.

Metal all original, with proper 200M rear and front sights, and good blue finish of at least 85%, if not better.

Stock reminds me of an African style sporter with good oil finished walnut showing nice figure in the grain, and a slimmed profile with a schnabel forend, black plastic pistol grip cap and original ribbed metal buttplate. Stock has well done wood fill in behind pistol grip, possibly from conversion of a previous military stock. Under barrel sling swivel in front, and butt swivel, with appropriate original period leather sling with wood adjuster/closer.

Bought from WW2 vet, was told by seller back in the 60's that it was used for military training in the 20's or 30's. Possibly sportorized for civilian market at that time.

Extremely accurate at 75 yards with iron sights.

Looking for a buyer.

Chris

chris_berg_98@yahoo.com

760-751-2265 HOME

 

I was fortunate to talk with Brad at the SOS and look through the Trainer manuscript. I've been fooling with these little rifles off and on, for nearly 40 years, and learned several new things in ten minutes of browsing. I must say, I've never heard of a DSM-37 - or seen pictures of one!!! All I sincerely feel this book will instantly become the "Magnum opus" for German Training Rifles. Brad has a lot on his plate and regardless of how long it takes to bring the book to publication - it will be worth the wait! With Jim Whitley and Richard Carey sharing the load, how can it fail?
Sign me up Brad!

 

Hi Denny, Joe W here. I saw your post concerning the "625L" and was flummoxed. What? I thought it was an odd shaped font "625C". What is the bbl. length compared to a 625C? I have to reexamine mine this evening more closely. Then all of the four I have had over the years have been 625L I guess, as all were police E/L marked. I have a number of them recorded from Bob Simpson, Carey, Roscoe. I am helping Brad with the trainer book too, concentrating on the police use of the trainers.

 

Hi Joe,
I think Mauser99 is the person who posted the 625L. I'm sure he will elaborate.

 

Thanks for the correction Denny. Got the posts mixed up. Well Mauser 99, I checked mine and either it is a "C" with a funny font, or it is certainly an "L" as you write. So all of the ones I have owned and own, were all E/L and 625Ls. Hmm. Now my FFL entries need to be corrected. Fascinating discovery. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Joe

 

Well, Joe. I studied the rifles. Then I studied text. I happened to have a Calligraphy book in the house and looked into it..No matter what alphabit I studied no one makes a capital " C " in that shape period !! So thats how I came to my conclusion. I Brought it to the Simpsons's attention but, I'm not sure if the old man is ready to budge on this one. As they were always thought to be c's Also the serial range of the c and L I own are totally different... Barrel length is different as well.. But simpson states multilple barrel lenghts..

 

Denny, I have #194 393 recorded as an E/L that would make it a w625L.

W625B # 163 369 was listed above as an E/K. I saw it at the SOS last year and took this photograph. I was not impressed with the police acceptance mark. IMO, the mark is not original to this gun and would not have appeared on this early a gun.

 

I forgot to include the photo of the bogus E/K marked BSW. Here it is now.

M99, your theory is interesting. The BSW KKWs arrived in 1939 as I have some source documentation giving a serial number for an early KKW sent for SS approval.

 

fonts

took a bit to find it online.. I sent one to the Simpsons to plead my case.. Basicly if its a 'c' it would have to be a 'c' not used in any alphabit period.. At least one I cant find...This is the gothic capitol letter alphabit.. I've noted; an early one up top and I owned one in the 198XXX range. I dont remeber the complete serial #..The other one noted is for sale on g.b. right now.. I also now added the letters I emailed to the Simpson clan..

 

We have over 100 625s and most of the original factory catalogs and sales brochures. When you compare 100 guns in a row, you see that there were many inconsistencies in manufacture. It was more of a job shop operation. I don’t think there are any parts that are interchangeable between a 625 and a 625c except screws; stocks and barrel dimensions varied. Between 192,000 and 193,000 the font on the ‘c’ in the 625c model designation was changed to look more like an ‘L’ and this font was used to the end of production. I don’t think this was intended as an ‘L’ or it would have been mentioned in factory literature.

 

I know I'm stirring the pot..I know I dont have a hundred examples to look at and compare..You may be right..But, the evidence leads me to believe otherwise..All the BSW made w625's the modell is stamped in a gothic style..Unlike the early simson w625's.. And the gothic L has the tail on it where the C does not.. Both are closed at the top. My intention is to help the Simpsons in there quest to finish the book..I'll buy the book reguardless of how they depict this modell...It's to bad we dont have any police trainer period catalogs to go by.. The debate goes on !!!!

 

On the one hand, the illustrations of the fonts is quite convincing as to the letter being an "L". But on the other hand, Brad statement about the factory literature is substantial. To jump from W625C to W625L is quite a model leap. Were there any in between? I mentioned that I saw a BSW model K shown in a Geco 1937 catalog. But the chamber inscription is difficult to make out in the catalog.

Is Mauser99s comment about barrel length consistent for all the odd font Cs/Ls, or did the barrel length vary within that production range of a couple of thousand in which the police contract was located?

 

I want to get this right in the book. I have looked at all of the evidence presented here, on the guns, and in the literature. As of now, I believe it is a C in a different font. This makes the most sense based on everything I've seen.

But I am still open to the idea that it is an L. I will just have to see better evidence.

 

I don't know if anyone noticed the BSW 317K #199 214 for sale on Gunbroker. The photos are quite interesting, when comparing the font of this BSW to the chart that Wayne posted. You will note that the font used for the K of this gun is identical to that on the chart posted, that also shows the same L as on the W625Ls we have been discussing. Serial would put kissin' cousins to the Ls and just before the KKWs.

 

w625's

Well, do all the true C's have the first modell BSW logo and the supposed L's all use the second version script ??? My C has a 25" barrel and the L has a 26" barrell... I laid the two side by side and took photos..I dont have them in this computor..The later L has the same barrell lenght as a dsm-34 or kkw.. Where the early versions have shorter barrells...It's seems as though Bsw was trying to replicate the demensions of the dsm-34 with their product or make a Better product..All this was eclisped by the development of the kkw and its final adoption...No w625's are seen over 200,000 as the highest I've seen was 198xxx....

 

We are looking at over 100 guns and most all of the catalogs. The change in barrel length started at about 169,000 and the change in font at about 190,000. I have catalogs with A's, B's, C's, & Z's. And I have the catalogs L's would be in if they made em.

Again, this is my opinion based on what I've seen so far. I want to get this right in the book. A document or catalog mentioning the 625L would convince me. Saying that a C kinda looks like an L isn't enough.

 

Well that explains my difference. Mine pictured in the top photo..w625c is serial # 168912 just before the barrel change.. If the L/C in script changes coincide with the second version BSW logo maybe the die got screwed up when they cut the C making it look more like and L . Looking at my earlier post I documented internet rifles and my examples as follows...w625c # 182788 w625L #185363 this later one was posted by Bill Grist on the ww2 weapons forum.. Anyone who knows him should contact him and ask him..I think it was also police marked..

 

Looking at my earlier post I documented internet rifles and my examples as follows...w625c # 182788 w625L #185363 this later one was posted by Bill Grist on the ww2 weapons forum.. Anyone who knows him should contact him and ask him..I think it was also police marked..

BILL'S RESPONSE "Hello Denny, My BSW .22 trainer is marked in a roundlet on the back of the stock SA Nordmark....BILL"

 

That is my opinion. Again, I want to get it right in the book.

At this point I can make a better argument that the C looks kind like an L, as opposed to why is there no documented mention of an L anywhere?