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Rear of bolt lugs shaved? Safety issue?

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3.1K views 26 replies 10 participants last post by  Pál_K  
#1 · (Edited)
I have a beautiful old German 7x57 Mauser which I bought twenty years ago which for various reasons I have not shot yet, but now upon inspection it seems that a gunsmith I took the rifle to may have shaved the rear of the bolt lugs. I’m wondering if this can cause a safety issue due to bolt thrust.

To understand how this may have happened I feel I need to provide the complete long story of this rifle, but if you want to avoid this, then skip ahead to the Coda -(+)- sign.

By the way, here is the Mauser, with a beautiful English Walnut stock I had chosen and which was hand-carved for it:




The story
—————
In 2001 at a somewhat rural gun show I spotted a 7x57 Mauser with double set triggers and express sights. Although it had a very weatherbeaten lightweight light-colored stock (pine?), I wanted it. My plans were to replace it with a nicer stock.

The rifle is made by Germania Waffenwerk, Zella-Mehlis, and is an M98 bolt action. I later learned that Germania Waffenwerk is related to Anschütz and that the districts of Zella and Mehlis united in 1919. My best guess is that a sporting rifle such as this would’ve been made between 1925 and 1935. The serial number on the receiver is 2342; I could not find one on the bolt at that time.

It was about $500 and although I did not have that much, I told the seller I would buy it if I could put $100 to hold it today (Saturday) and bring the remainder to the show on Sunday. He agreed. The one thing I wanted to make sure of is that the rifle could chamber a 7x57 round. Surprisingly (at least in these present times), we went out into the parking lot and chambered a live round. My recollection was that it required slightly more effort than with my M96B Swedish Mauser.

Later Sunday evening after buying the gun and driving two hours home, I put the bolt in and attempted to close it on an empty chamber. It was very difficult to close. My first thought was that somehow I was given the wrong bolt.

My thought was that while I’m getting the stock selected, dried, and carved, I’d have a gunsmith check the headspace. This is at a well-established gunsmith and gun shop in a large city. The work order states, “Check headspace and ream if necessary.” Two days later I pick up the rifle, cost for the work was $55, and they handed me two cases that were test-fired. I verified for myself that the bolt now closed properly. That was in 2002 and I have never fired the rifle, although now I want to. So I thought about all that had transpired and realized something didn’t make sense.

Coda -(x)-

If I had difficulty closing the bolt on an empty chamber, how would reaming the chamber solve that? What did the gunsmith actually do? I looked into the chamber and it did not appear to have been reamed - the shoulder and chamber appeared to have been unaltered from the day it was made.

I looked at the bolt - and now I did see a number, 53, but I can’t tell if this was the original bolt I’d tried the first time. Anyway, it’s mismatched. Only after looking at some photos I made of the bolt did I spot this:




It seems to me the rear surface of both front lugs have been shaved in order to get the bolt to go in and lock. The rear lug is untouched.

If they have been shaved, doesn’t this compromise the surface heat treatment of the lugs? How can I be sure there now isn’t too much space between the rear of the lug and the receiver lug recess? My understanding is that more than 0.002” would cause bolt thrust that could eventually shear off the lugs. I’m going to buy a set of headspace gauges anyway - can I assume if it doesn’t close on a NO-GO then things are good? Maybe take it to another gunsmith? By the way, the original shop and people are still around.

Here are some measurements I made with calipers, but it was difficult to make them because of the curved surfaces; I’m not that confident in these values:



Anyway, I thank you if you’ve read this far. What say you? I really want to enjoy shooting this rifle without worrying about a bolt failure.
 
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#2 ·
It appears that the bolt lugs have been ground - not very much, apparently. As you thought, reaming the chamber could not have affected the issue with hard bolt closure on an empty chamber. The gunsmith appears to have solved a problem with the non-original bolt assembly interfering with the barrel shank by altering the bolt lugs, though the actual interference may have been the extractor contacting the barrel. There is no way of knowing whether headspace is now correct without checking it with proper gauges. It is never a good idea to remove material from the contact areas of a Mauser bolt, but it is not possible to say, with any given bolt, that a dangerous condition has been created. The proper procedure at this point would be to return to the gunsmith for an explanation of what he did, with discussion of the above points. The best solution would be for him to replace the bolt with a correct (sporting) type, insuring that bolt (and extractor) clearance does not cause interference problems, and that headspace is within correct limits - without altering the bolt lugs.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
#3 ·
I am curious if the gunsmith ever headspaced this rifle? I mean if a gunsmith did all that work then it should have been explained what work was done and why. Also ready to shoot before returned to the customer. Is it still 7x57 cal? Should the barrel had an extractor cut in it like many other barrels so claw of extractor would fit into it when bolt closed. Have you tried no go and go gauges in it or chambered a dummy round yet? You may want to take it to qualified gunsmith and ask their opinion.
 
#4 ·
The '98 Mauser does not have (or need) an extractor clearance cut. But tolerances among '98 Mauser action parts made at different places and times may result in interference where none should exist when only original parts are in the assembly. Having only a qualified gunsmith inspect and/or work on any firearm is an excellent policy, but, giving the 'smith who actually did the work a shot at explanation and correction is also worthwhile: both the 'smith and the owner may learn something useful in future. If that discussion is unsatisfactory, the owner can try to find another gunsmith who does understand the problem and can correct it properly. No reputable gunsmith would ever refuse to discuss his work with a customer, or correct a mistake he made.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
#5 ·
The '98 Mauser does not have (or need) an extractor clearance cut. But tolerances among '98 Mauser action parts made at different places and times may result in interference where none should exist when only original parts are in the assembly. Having only a qualified gunsmith inspect and/or work on any firearm is an excellent policy, but, giving the 'smith who actually did the work a shot at explanation and correction is also worthwhile: both the 'smith and the owner may learn something useful in future. If that discussion is unsatisfactory, the owner can try to find another gunsmith who does understand the problem and can correct it properly. No reputable gunsmith would ever refuse to discuss his work with a customer, or correct a mistake he made.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
I have collected Mauser rifles for at least forty years and very familiar with them. I also have bought quite a few Mauser receivers and barreled actions for rifles I built myself from them. I have never seen the locking lugs machined down like that . Had them lapped but that's all.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Thank you for the replies so far. Yes, it is still 7x57. Being that the work was done over 20 years ago, they likely will not remember what they did.

I will be getting headspace gauges anyway, just because I want to have a set for each of the calibers I shoot in older rifles.

My thoughts are to take it to a different gunsmith and explain what appears to have happened.

More photos of the bolt:



I’ve never understood why it is this wine color - the receiver itself is blued. I suspect that’s not original and someone did that, although I’ve actually seen that bolt color before on sporting Mausers.
 
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#7 ·
The new photos are very interesting, because the extractor also appears to have been ground: apparently the 'smith DID identify the interference problem, but decided to take other (and improper) action to provide the needed clearance, as the extractor could have stood more grinding without affecting its function, and, in any case, was not the critical component. I hope he learned better, afterward.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
#21 ·
I was wondering the same about the claw on the extractor. I used to buy new in the white extractors and they had a very long claw that had to be ground. I used them for conversions to smaller chambers I did. I am not sure why the extractor should have even been ground unless the rifle was rechambered to smaller caliber cartridge than the 8x57. Very strange
 
#9 ·
At first I was disappointed because the fleur-de-lis patterns were “imperfect”, but I quickly realized that that is the very nature of hand engraved wood rather than something created by a machine and an algorithm. The actual pattern and figure around the bottom end of the schnabel is spectacular - I’ll have to post a photo of that tomorrow.

Although I will take this rifle and bolt to another gunsmith for an assessment, I’m wondering whether I should be looking for another bolt (and, if so, where)?
 
#11 · (Edited)
I bought a NOS bolt body from SARCO a couple of years ago. It was advertised as a 1950 FN manufacture. The lugs were shaved like yours. I was advised by several experienced 'smiths that these were through hardened bolts made of modern steel, not case-hardened steel. SARCO sold them in several headspace lengths to accommodate different headspace requirements. Perhaps this could be one of those. I agree that another 'smith should evaluate.

M98 Mauser Straight Body Stripped Bolt, New Original - SARCO, Inc (sarcoinc.com)
M98 Mauser Bolt Body with Extra Long Lugs, New - SARCO, Inc (sarcoinc.com)
 
#12 ·
/\ /\ +1 on BobVZ

First...see what's what. Maybe your bolt is OK?

If the dimensions are "ON"...are the "shaved" lugs hard enough? Could the bolt body be hardened up by either case hardening or a more modern process?

A new bolt body may be needed...thank god they're out there. Maybe buy one as insurance...you can always sell it later if you don't need it?
 
#13 ·
.002" will not cause bolt thrust that will eventually shear off the lugs. Most rifles ever made have more than .002" clearance.

If the original shop is in business, your first stop should have been them to ask what exactly it was they did. They may or may not have records. For $55 I seriously doubt they did any real work, ie "shaving" the lugs or reaming the chamber. From what you described, they checked headspace and test fired.

Original specs for the bolt lugs are .3740 and .3937, so your bolt is likely original and not modified.

Get a go and nogo and check the headspace.
 
#14 ·
It is just possible that the grinding of the bolt lugs was done as a finishing operation by the manufacturer, though I don't recall having seen any other Mauser bolt with evidence of grinding in that fashion, or such obvious grinding marks left. Also, you did not state that the bolt did NOT show such signs of grinding when you acquired it. Still, the amount of grinding seems to have been small, so the bolt may still be serviceable. If you find the headspace is within tolerance, it will do no harm to shoot the rifle a bit, while watching for signs of lug setback. As the available evidence now stands, the gunsmith may actually have correctly diagnosed the interference problem, and properly corrected it by grinding the extractor.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
#16 ·
I work in a tool and die shop, grinding a rounded surface on the back of the lugs like that with out nicking the bolt body would be a bit of a complicated set up. I doubt a regular o’l gunsmith would have proper grinder.

now I’m not the grinder man, just the lathe guy, the rear of the lugs could probably have been turned down. But this would have left a sharp edge on the lugs and they don’t show that they’ve been deburred or else they’d be missing a bit of blue on the edge.

one way to check lug contact is to place sharpie on the back of the lugs, remove your firing pin and chamber a live cartridge, then tilt the bolt up and down about 20-30 times and see how much lug contact you’re getting. 100% is NOT needed. My Mauser 25-06 Ackely Improved doesn’t even have that much. 50% is doing good and I had the lugs lapped.
 
#18 ·
The rear lug surfaces are flat. It would not be difficult for a properly-equipped gunsmith to grind the surfaces with a tool post grinder, and without marking the bolt body. I have corrected bolt lug contact in both Winchester and Remington actions with only a single lug in contact as manufactured in exactly that way - some with as much as .002" to .003" clearance between one of the lugs and the receiver contact surface, too much to correct by lapping. It would be simple for a manufacturer to insure even bearing by grinding the bolt lugs, if that was his standard practice.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
#22 ·
Yeah that extractor looks new and was ground upon further looking at pic. Also that is not the military barrel and looks like a more expensive barrel and that is why I was wondering if rechambered. Does not add up. The stock looks exactly like the one on my Winchester M70 Featherweight XTR rifle I bought in the early 80's. Same stock.
 
#23 ·
Thank you, everyone.

Doing some experiments… I will have more information later this evening.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Latest update.

Looking at the extractor, I don’t think it was ground despite how it appeares in photos. When I look at it, the front surface of the claw seems very smooth and original. I suppose it could’ve been ground and polished - but then I wonder why not polish the rear of the lugs as well. Here is a photo from today:



I used a Sharpie pen and essentially painted the rear of both lugs and the front face of the extractor, then operated the bolt a few times.

There is no front-to-back play in the bolt when it’s closed; it is tight.

Upon withdrawing the bolt, the extractor face was unchanged and the rear of the lugs had minimal removal of the pen ink. I also discovered that the ink doesn’t come off easily :). So, this tells me that the extractor isn’t encountering any interference and also that the rear of the lugs aren’t pressed up tight in the recess. Afterwards:



Since I’m ordering headspace gauges, what I did today in the meantime is take the fired case the gunsmith gave me, stick a 145gr 7mm bullet into the neck (a slightly tight fit), and get an overall length of 3.000” ( max OAL is 3.065” for 7x57). Then I chambered the round - it chambered easily. The bullet was not pushed back into neck - no surprise there.

So I guess the next step is a gunsmith visit for an assessment and a wait for the gauges if he doesn’t have them.

A bottom view of the forend and schnabel:

 
#26 ·
I have a K98 that I bought off Guns America which was rebarreled with a premium barrel in 270. This gun has been hard to get the bolt to that last little bit. Gunsmith inspected, honed internal of the bolt where fire pin goes. Did some slight lapping. It is much improved, but does not perform like a Mauser action should. Not sure what more to do, or if just be satisfied that it is much better. In retrospect, wish I paid a few hundred more and got a quality Mauser. Gunsmoker
 
#27 ·
One option, and that applies to me as well, is to get a new bolt. You’d still have to have everything checked for headspace, but chances are you’d end up with something you like.