This topic has been covered ad nausea in this forum alone. but i'll spell it out the footnotes version for you.
-You won't find 8x50R Austrian surplus ammo in any amount to shoot, if you do you hit a jackpot.
-If you want to shoot your 8x50R M95 you need to learn to reload. Not only is it possible, but its an easy conversion from 7.62x54R cases or 8x56R cases. But it requires you to learn the basics of reloading..which some people just don't have the motivation or patience to do.
-8x50R lebel is no where close to 8x50R Austrian, won't even chamber, don't even try.
-7.62x54R CAN be fired out of an 8x50R M95..I have done it, and it actually fireforms the case (if using brass 54R) nicely. but the bullet diameter of 54R is around .311" and the bore diameter of your M95 is closer to .329" so shooting 54R is a waste of a good bullet..you may hit a target at 50 yards, it may scratch your initial itch of shooting your M95 but its not something you want to make a habit of..
-I fireform 54R cases, and use PPU .330" 208gr FMJBTs, or 208gr flat base soft nose (SP) bullets, or cast lead .330 bullets which I have found on gunbroker occasionally. You buy these at Grafs when they are in stock! they sell out quick. a fast rifle powder like IMR3031, IMR4895, or Accurate5744 is a good place to start but if you need help with charge weight you need to do some research before that stage.
-There is alot of confusion concerning the 8x50R cartridge because the original bullet was .323' in diameter, but it was a hollow base bullet..it expanded to the rifling (.329"+) when fired. you can't use .323" bullets reliably..I used 240gr woodleigh flat base, LONG nose .323" bullets once in my m95. It had OKAYish accuracy at 100 yards but no where near the PPU .330's...323" flat base bullets will work if you absolutely can't find anything else they are your best bet but DO NOT use .323" boat tailed bullets! they can cause gas cutting possibly damaging the barrel..

so if you take one thing away from all that /\..you need to start learning how to reload if you want to shoot that M95.

 

Thank you. This is probably the most helpful info I've gotten so far.

 

you just rec'd excellent info from mech tech. i'll just add this. i have a good condition Steyr M. 1888, Chilean contract, in 8x50 R. i have shot it using formed Russian 7,62x52R cases and .323 8mm flat based bullets and had excellent results, accuracy wise. i also test fired Woddleigh .330 flat base bullets, and could not see any difference, accuracy wise.

it's a fairly simple process to form the cases, fire-form them in your rifle, and then reload, neck sizing only, using an 8mm Lebel die set. if you are inexperienced at handloading, it would be best to have someone experienced at it help you to start. i wouldn't mind sending you some formed cases in the mail to get you started, if you don't have any one to help you out.

 

My concern with feed any old milsurp with a steady diet of solid base and undersized bullets is highly accelerated barrel erosion with hot gas blowby the undersized bullet. I know people do this and in many cases get good accuracy. I still have this concern. If .330 is available, and the bores slug as reported, that would be my start point.

 

Here is some more info:

Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org - Information

M95 Mannlicher 8x50r Dies

Bought an M95 Mannlicher thinking it was an 8x56r carbine only to find it was a long rifle cut down to carbine length and still in 8x50r. Perhaps a Polish rifle? Anyway, in trying to provide ammunition for it, I ordered Buffalo Arms cut down 7.62x54r cases and ordered .329, 205 gr cast bullets...

www.gunboards.com

Maybe with the resurfacing of all the old junk RTI 8x50R garbage, Starline may make a brass case like they finally did for the French 32 French Longue pistol cartridge. So best to hang the junk on the wall or buy a used press, get a die set, then the extras... maybe a $200-400 adventure. Sometime you can get an old RCBS Jr press with all the goodies like a scale, trickle, bullet puller... cheep at gun shows from old guys that have died off and the family sells the "junk" dirt cheep at a flee market or gun show. Getting started will cost more than the $150 mannlicher. But it is fun...

 

I already have a press but it's probably from the 60s and very plain. I know my grandpa used it but I need to go find it in my garage.

 

Your best bet is to decide to use 8x56r brass or Russian 7.62 x 54r for conversion then do web research and make paper copies for your lab note book. Then see what dies you may need/,like. I favor CH4D special order dies. I also favor brass case, boxer primed brass. I sold off most of my WW I 8x50r rifles and the shoulder buster carbines mostly the cheep 8x56r caliber due to health problems. They turn your shoulder black & blue if on blood thinners and rattle the chest cut. Lots of information is on gunboards and Rapidrob on SRF. A Goggle search can find most suggestions. Do the research for both types, print out the good info and compile a note book of your data. Then think about which way you want to go, what you want to buy and if you actually want to get into reloading. If you like odd ball rifles & pistols you will have to reload.
Now if you are lucky, as us old guys drop dead, the gun shows have odd ammunition that is way obsolete showing up from our stashes. But if you see some 8x50R original cartridges they will be at least $3 a round. Those can also be reloaded, but you have to have unobtainable berdan primes or convert the cases to boxer-- some what of a pain, but can be done.

You may find this book interesting if into shooting and reloading old surplus rifles: Search out at a library or order Shooting World War II Small Arms by Mike Venturino, 2014, Wolfe Publishing. He covers the 8x56r, but not the 8x50R in this book. Lots of information see short review on SRF:

Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org - Information

 

This should be a sticky since it’s a frequently asked question. When I was going down this rabbithole a couple of years ago info was sparse and in several different threads only found via google, and not readily so.

A member here sells brass in 8x50r which he makes from 8x56, and 8mm Lebel dies can be used to neck size the 8x50r Austrian cases. (Beyond that there’s no connection or similarity between the two rounds.)

 

My 2 cents of unwanted info...
The easiest solution is to use new Privi 8x56R brass. If cheep, you can run each case into an 8mm Lebel forming die and cut to proper length. I would suggest Annealing after reforming--- a pain. French Lebel brass and Austrian 8x50R are not interchangable. They are different cartridges (rim dimensions are different). However, the neck dimensions are somewhat close enough if you are too cheep to buy a correct die set. A set of French Lebel dies can be utilized for neck forming. These can also be used for neck resizing the fired cartridge after the first firing. It is best to use an expensive special order CH4D actual 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher die set. In todays market components are hard to find or on back order. I still can not find primers and bullets - what ever size you decide, it should be part of the special order die set. What size bullet are you going to use? ( .323, 329)

New to reloading an ancient reference:
Reloading articles by Carteach0 - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org I provided video links to the steps in reloading 32 French Long , but I never made a 8x50R post. The links provide some nice videos showing each step in the process: General informational videos. see the middle of page 5. Steps to reloading 32 french long, but the same general steps apply. The videos are informative & some of the better ones I found for those that forgot or were new to reloading.
see page 5 7.65 French Long. - Page 5 - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org

RCBS also sells a nice DVD on reloading for beginners. also maybe this old ancient post:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/reloading-final-inspection-packaging-tips/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20170605_BlogDigest_227&utm_campaign=/blog/reloading-final-inspection-packaging-tips/

Buy Precisioneered Handloading DVD and More | RCBS

Shopping for the Precisioneered Handloading DVD - Learn more about the latest Tools and other hunting or shooting gear at RCBS.

www.rcbs.com

Also consult a Lee reloading manual. I am old as dirt an have old iron equipment but the RCBS Jr press will out live you.

 

I always found brass conversion a pain and then one has brass incorrectly marked on the head stamp. If possible I always would buy factory correct brass with its correct head stamp.
A shot video of steps in conversion and it can get crazy... the experts have this down to a science.

The 7 Steps to Brass Case Conversion

Learn how to resize range pick-up brass into obscure and expensive calibers.

www.ammoland.com

 

Last time I saw 8x50R ammo it was at an online auction site back in 2008. The bidding got to high for me, but that was unfortunately the last time I ever saw the stuff for sale anywhere. Best of luck with your reloading.

 

Of course the easy way to solve the problem is hang the 8x50R on the wall and get a 8x56R rifle and shoot that all day long.
Back in the day they were $10 toys sold in barrels...

Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.org - Information

 

The more I think about it the more enticing that option sounds.

 

Actually in Wi most large gun shows generally have at least one Berthier, generally two; and at least one Mannlicher, generally the import marked carbines. I generally only see one long rifle in 8x56r a year at WI shows. They are more difficult to stumble onto. As old guys die the stuff from the 1960-1980 comes to light. I guess it depends on your state and regional location. You may want to consider getting on Empire Arms list. Here is a link to past sales values and what was offered. see INDEX of 6+ years of EMPIRE ARMS "New Stuff" pages

You also see those $1.25 boxes of nazi 8x56r, but they are now priced at $20-25 each. Prvi also makes 8x56r and brass is available.

 

I saw on egun a few times Romanian surplus 8x50R ammo. Here in Europe this type of ammo is not super rare. Every now and then they appear for sale. Other way is to obtain the original ww1 brass (Berdan primers) from the battlefields which can be in good shape. Its still possible to find it in mountains and reload it.

 

Romanian 8x50R ammo will have 5.00mm ( .199")
Roth Berdan Primer. Unless you find some old RWS #5004 or#5005 Primers, there are none made for over 20 years.
Best thing for Roth primed shells, is decap with a fine pin in the Central ( thru anvil flash hole, ) then enlarge flashhole with 1,5 or 1,6mm drill ( 1/16"), then open primer pocket with 5,3mm drill, till all anvil is removed, and finish with Lyman LR primer pocket uniformer.
Gives a good LR pocket which can be reloaded with LR Boxer Primers ( 5,33mm/.210")
Anneal cases, before reloading.

DocAV

 

Midway has some .338 185 grain Federal bullets on clearance for $20 per 100 (and free shipping right now). I am in the process of resizing them to .329 in a Lee die. They size very easily, but I am also using an old RCBS A2 press. Haven't shot any of them yet, but they should be fine.

 

So, if I have surplus brass 7.62x53/54 and trim to 50mm, reload with .323 bullets, I should be able to shoot safely? If Zi have commercial brass, I can reload as above and fire form cases. I have 3 of the 8x50 carbines and would like to try them out. Had an uncle in the Hungarian Honved (National Guard) In WW1.

 

Of course. You have to expand shortened cases to Neck .323. I Would advise Flat Base RN .323, or
Cast lead 329" ( Lee mould and sizer).
Boat tail or Spitzer 323" No Good.
If your milsurp 762x54R is Brass ( with Berdan primer) it is very Corrosive...wash out Barrel and chamber after using.
Best solution is New 7,62x54R empty brass, Trim, Size ( shoulder and Neck) then load to fire form, and
VIOLA'---ready supply of 8x50R cases.

DocAV

 

Of course. You have to expand shortened cases to Neck .323. I Would advise Flat Base RN .323, or
Cast lead 329" ( Lee mould and sizer).
Boat tail or Spitzer 323" No Good.
If your milsurp 762x54R is Brass ( with Berdan primer) it is very Corrosive...wash out Barrel and chamber after using.
Best solution is New 7,62x54R empty brass, Trim, Size ( shoulder and Neck) then load to fire form, and
VIOLA'---ready supply of 8x50R cases.

DocAV

Doc-
What would make a .323 170 gr RN flat based bullet better than a .323 200 gr Spitzer flat based bullet? My experience is that it is only important that it be flat based and as long as possible. Long, heavier bullets will likely obturate better (depending on bullet construction), and also feed better. The design of the tip, which contacts nothing, makes no difference.

 

The Base Upset Obturation principle ( BUO) requires that the Body of the cylindrical RN is sufficiently long for the Partial rifling engagement ( .315" to .323" in a Groove of .329" to prevent bullet " wobble" in the Bore. A spire point FB would have less bullet area engagement than a RN because of the reducing diameter of a conical section.
Sounds profound, but simple trigonometry ( compare in 2-D design, to look at relative bullet to rifling contact area.)
The more the bullet is supported along its length, the more accurate it is.

DocAV

 

My point was that if you’re not talking long bullets, there’s not much difference. A 170 gr Hornady round nose is not going to perform any better than a 170 gr Speer hot core Spitzer. You probably get better results from whichever one is a little softer core and thinner jacket. There aren’t a lot of round nose, heavy 8mm bullets readily available in the U.S., other than Woodleigh or Norma at about $1 each when you can find them. There isn’t much choice that will work well otherwise. For that reason, I shoot either roughly 200 gr .329 jacketed or heavy 265 gr .330 lead bullets in 8x50R.

 

What a modern ( 2022) shooter must realize is that we are considering a Projectile- Rifling combination, designed for Military use in 1888-1893-95!

NOT sporting or collecting enthusiasts with modern designed 1950s-1960s or later
Designed Bullets to US concepts.

The only reliable reloading of 8x50R is with FMJ RN 244 grain, or similar profile Soft Points by Norma, Woodleigh , RWS etc.
specifically for such Use.

WE ( AVBTechServices) are
developing CNC solid Brass projectiles to Replicate Profiles and Dimensions of Original 1890s RN military projectiles, albeit with about 5/6 original Mass ( solid 60/40 Brass is Less Dense than Steel-jacketed lead)
Viz, our recently released 6,5 Carcano CNC-Brass Projectile,
M91/95, Original Mass 162 grain, CNC Mass 136 grain with hollow base and total original surface area profile ( same bullet/ rifling area).
We don't have the Technical capacity to Reproduce an original M88/95 Austrian 8mm Projectile ( Steel Jacket, Lead Core)...but a CNC will replicate all the Surface Area Parameters to fit a M95 etc Barrel.
So now Cast Lead projectiles as the Best Solutions...NOE and other special molds in 8mmRN of the 1890s era design ( Lebel Balle M, Commission 88, , M93 Mannlicher, etc are the best solution...close to correct mass,
Close to Land/ Groove compatibility, good BUO.

Unless someone ( Ethiopia?) Discovers a large cache of Original Factory/ Military ammo,
Berdan, Dead Corrosive Privers Bad powder &/or cases, and can rescue the Projectiles as components, will we ever see original construction M88/95 Austrian Mannlicher FMJ projectiles again!

GIVE ME About US$100 Mill., and Atesci ( Turkey) can set me up a complete Bullet, Case, and Loading line, adjustable for similar capacity Cartridges,
( ie, all the 1890s RN military)
Keys-in-Hand, Greenfield Location.

Another Lifetime, and Powerball Jackpot ( in Australia, no Gambling Income Tax like US or Britain?)

DocAV
AVBlankfire Pty.Ltd.
Brisbane Australia.

 

You can shoot 7.62x54r in an 8x50 but i wouldnt recommend it. When they say its windy they mean the bullet will tumble cuz its too small to engage the rifling. You will have to reload unless you can find and pay more for 8x50 reloads. if you cant find an 8x50 die, which will be vailable in august 2022 from Ch4D, get an 8mm lebel die. Trim 7.62x54r brass or 8x56 brass and load it with an 8mm lebel die. Or try to source some 8x50 brass. Do not use the 8mm lebel die to resize the entire case and deprime it. This is how ive been loading and shooting my 8x50. i just happened to have an 8mm lebel die on hand. If you have the 8x50 die then reloading will be as easy as loading anything else. once you shoot the 8x50 reloads uve made using the 8mm lebel die they will be fireformed. you can also fireform the case seperately instead of loading an actual bullet and firing it.

 

One of the sad facts of life is, in India they still load and use the 8x50 Rim Mannlicher. WHY? Citizens aren't allowed to own a Lee/Enfield in .303 British so the small arms factories chamber them in 8x50 Mannlicher for hunting. So you can buy a new LEE/ENFIELD and plenty of ammo in India, but not here! Breaks my heart to see pics of brand new ammo in that caliber but nobody has brought it over here yet.
VWMAN.

 

India continued the 1907 British Calibre Rules ( No .577, .450, or .303 for Civilians). BSA immediately offered its LE sporting rifles in 8mm Mannlicher ( 8x50R)...During WWII, after the fall of AOI in 1941, the British shipped thousands of Carcanos and Mannlicher M95s to India, as training rifles.
The Indian Ordnance system made 6,5, 8x50R, and 8mm Breda ammo during the War.
(P.LABBET, Guns Review)
After the war, with 1947 Independance, India maintained most of the British rules, regulations and suffocating beaurocracy into the Republic.
The Production of " .315" Indian"
was commenced ( 200+ grain Soft RN) on the previous 8x50R machinery ( converted .303 kept.)
The Rifles were SMLE action Sporters, using both RFI and Lithgow Actions, completely scrubbed of Former Military markings, and re-proofed.
I don't have an RFI one, but I do Have a pre-WWI BSA built on a LEC action...very nice, and shoots 8x50R Lion- Circle-M- 1935 ( contract for Bulgaria, that I got with the Rifle...Provenance of Rifle: India.).
I don't know the case design of the Indian Made 8x50R ( mil. Or .315")...Primer Berdan and Corrosive, diameter??? Given that the Italian was 5,2mm ( .204") and the 8x50R was 5.0mm, ( .199")...I doubt a special Primer size was used.
The 8x50R case is large head, suitable for the Standard (.250")
BERDAN primer, so I Assume that is what they used ( seeing the use of Modified .303 Machinery.)
Any way, India for a long time did NOT permit export of .315" Indian Sporting Rifles and Ammunition...now, I don't know.

Doc AV

 

Austria-Hungary, many a poor soul has taken to strong drink and loose women when taking up reloading for military surplus rifles. The info is all good. I've been fooling around with them for over 50 years. Couple suggestions on mil surps, get a good bore light. So that you can inspect the the bore of any rifle you have an interest in buying. And make up a little kit so you can run a patch or bore down the tube before you buy. Make that habit will save you money as you won't get stuck buying a rifle with a bad bore. If they won't let you check it out, say thanks and move on. Contrary to popular opinion they aren't making new barrels for a lot of the mil surp rifles so why buy someone else's problems??. Get your self a set of inexpensive dial calipers, harbor freight sells them your's should be good for .0001 one thousandth of an inch should be less than $30. And finally, get a small loose leaf and a bunch of pens and document everything you do with reloading. Sizing brass, repriming brass, weighing out zxc powder and use the grain weight as in your loading manual. Record seating depth everything. Write it all down and don't trust your memory, mine went bye,bye some years ago. Welcome aboard and have fun. Frank

 

Frank, I doubt if Taking to Strong Drink would lead to carousing with Loose women, as a quote from
" The Scottish Play" by WS, remarks by the castle Porter to MacDuff: "Drink adds to the Attraction, but
Detracts from the Performance there-of."

Anyway, your Advice is sound as it ever has been.
Record, record, record....like Earl Narramore ( 1930s Handloader) and Phil B. Sharpe (1930s-1950s)

DocAV