Would this rifle have been used in the Winter War

Serious question:

Are you this actual member, who hasn’t posted in 12 years, who clearly has internet access based on posting this, but is seriously asking this question?

Or has someone hacked a disused account?

 

You have a Tula made M38. A somewhat unusual variant of the M38. It's quite unlikely this was used in the Winter War as that conflict ended approximately four years before this rifle was produced. It was "used" during WW2 in sense that it was around for 1944/45 but there's no way to tell in what capacity. Could have been used in the storming of the Reichstag during the Battle of Berlin or it could have sat out the war crated up in a warehouse. No way to know either way.

 

I don't know who, what, when, or where but that looks like a pretty nice example of the M38 from what I believe would have been plant #536/Tula.

 

Nice looking m38 but anything else is pure speculation. Definitely didn't see winter war action. It does seem like alot of refurb m38's have been coming out of the wood work recently.

 

"Nagant"? Why do people keep calling the three-line rifles and carbines "Nagant", "Mosin" or "Mosin-Nagant" when no Russian manual calls them that?

 

Well, at least it's not Moizeen-Nagent anymore like the good old days. You have to admit, it's somewhat of a progress... Besides, what do you expect from people when the entire sub-forum here is named "Mosin Nagant HQ"....

 

Just imagine how strange the line " Trekhlineynaya vintovka na brezentovom remne..." from a famous poem would sound with a Mosin-Nagant instead of a "Three-Line rifle". Now, that would be wrong on so many levels....

 

Just imagine how strange the line " Trekhlineynaya vintovka na brezentovom remne..."

Василий Теркин 😀

 

That's one funny-a$$ video, I really like the dude's voice from the 1950s milk commercials. "To this day there are millions of people still alive today who can take apart the bolt without use of any tools"... And this pearl... "In almost 60 years Russian 3-line rifle remains the best rifle in the world"... How about them apples? "The best in the World" no less....

 

Sounds better than what they like to use today (неаналоговый в мире — 'no analogues in the world')

 

Well, I have to give it to this video, he actually says that the official name is "Trekhlineynaya vintovka obraztsa 1891-ogo goda" or "3-line rifle of 1891st year". No Mosins or Nagants... The thing is that just about everybody on this forum knows the correct name and if you say "Three-line rifle" we know right away what rifle it is, outside of this forum though, I'm not so sure... And as far as carbines go, there were never any M38s or M44s either. Karabin was it. With or without bayonet. Well, and karabin Simonova, of course, also known as eS-Ka-eS among mere mortals...

 

The old DCM sales literature from the 1920's has the leftover Remingtons and NEWs listed as "Russian Rifle, 7.62mm." But by the 1950's, when Interarms started importing Mosins from Spain and Finland, it seems they had become Mosin-Nagant Rifles judging by the ads and books of the time. Mosin-Nagant is just the colloquial term used since then. If you go into a gun show and ask to look at that "3-line rifle of 1891st year" there is a 99% chance the guy at the table is going to have no idea what you are talking about...

 

I agree, that was my point, as long as we all know the correct name, it's all good. I have no problem with calling it a Mosin-Nagant either. Both Mosin and Nagant were involved, but so were other people and ideas. It is a commission rifle after all... And the worst part of it was, is, and always will be a poorly designed cartridge interrupter, was it Mosin's contribution? Way to go, pal... Besides, why is it always mentioned as a 5-round magazine capacity?

 

When this forum was started by Tuco nearly 30 yar ago, "Mosin Nagant" was the almost universally used name for these rifles by U.S. collectors. That's the reason...

 

Bulgarian army manual from 1898. The three-line rifle obr. 1891 is called a "Nagant M1890"

 

British book on small arms ca. WW1:

 

Well this thread definitely took an etymological turn. At least the OP is properly schooled on what to call his rifle as it's specific wartime use and history will have to remain a mystery. Minus the 0.0% chance of use in the Winter War.

 

Well, he asked for "any more information", right? He got at least some... I don't see a butt plate or mag floor plate number. The OP woke up from a 12-year coma, posted a few pictures and that's it. Not much to say. Looks to me like a nice M38, most likely used during the Great Patriotic War, rebuilt after, put in the long term storage, shipped here after the collapse of the USSR and now got the administrator all wound up with an inappropriate name in the thread title. What else is there?

 

... now got the administrator all wound up with an inappropriate name in the thread title.

Hmm... There are hundreds of threads on M17 vs. the incorrect P17, Gew 88 vs. Mauser 88, also incorrect, not to mention that the Mle 1892 revolver ain't no Lebel.

 

Hey, I'm all for it, Nick. The fact remains the same, the official and correct name of the Russian commission rifle is a "3-line, or later 7.62mm", no Mosin or Nagant. Just like there never was a 7.62 Tokarev cartridge or 7.62 Nagant for that matter. But that's another story altogether... I just watched a new video with John Goodman and Mae at C&Rsenal about the 91/30, I totally agree with Goodman's overall assessment at the end, though he could've used one with a cleaning rod and stop calling it a Mozeen.... Give it a shot if you haven't seen it already...

 

Really interesting topics are whether the name C96 was ever used by Mauser and who came up with the name Bolo for the 7.63 mm self-loading pistol (aka C96) with short barrel.

 

I've heard from several sources that Mauser never used the name C96, and Bolo is from the same place with the "Broomhandle" and "Black Widow" albeit born a tad earlier...

 

So it seems the OP has a 1944 dated M38 made at Tula and refurbed at Kyiv. I think I see the relief for a M44 bayonet in the stock, but that is hardly unusual.

 

Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it
John