Don’t confuse the 8x60/8x56r kropatscheck with 8x56r Austrian. They are two totally different rounds. 8x56krop is not available from anyone that I know aside from perhaps custom obsolete ammo makers. I believe the original 8x56 krop ammo had jacketed bullets of around the .323 diameter which had soft bases that would upset or expand to fit the often .329-.330 bore diameter similar to the 8x50r AM in the m95. Many people seem to be using .329 gas checked cast bullets for making 8x60/8x56r kropatschek.


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Don’t confuse the 8x60/8x56r kropatscheck with 8x56r Austrian. They are two totally different rounds. 8x56krop is not available from anyone that I know aside from perhaps custom obsolete ammo makers. I believe the original 8x56 krop ammo had jacketed bullets of around the .323 diameter which had soft bases that would upset or expand to fit the often .329-.330 bore diameter similar to the 8x50r AM in the m95. Many people seem to be using .329 gas checked cast bullets for making 8x60/8x56r kropatschek.



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Exactly right, except that the 8x56R Austrian is more often termed the 8x56R Hungarian. It was originally a development of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but on its dissolution in 1919 it was only Hungary that produced a new turnbolt rifle of their own and converted the straight-pull Mannlichers of which they gained custody.


I used a 330in. gas-checked mould from the unfortunately defunct NEI for my Portuguese Guedes, but I also sized down Speer 275gr. jacketed .338in. bullets. People will tell you that the jacket springs back a little towards its original size after sizing, but the core doesn't, leaving a space which may let the core get off-centre. But I found the jacketed bullet to end up a thousandth of an inch larger than lead, with that long nose preventing the core from moving off-centre by that theoretical maximum of .0005in. I found no discernable loss of accuracy.

Some blanks may be effectively reloadable. but I bought some with hollow wooden bullets which suffered badly from neck splitting. They were probably made from arsenal rejected cases or fired rounds, and I undnerstand that this splitting is caused by mercuric primers. People argue about whether this is due to firing them, or just to having the primer sitting in there for over a century. Either way, if a case suffers or is close to splitting, that is what you've got, and annealing doesn't fix it. Even a good collectible round may be as one-time as a rimfire, and if it isn't, you have the repriming problem. These rifles are good for a lot more pressure than I would want with shotgun primers.

Bertram make 8x60R Kropatschek cases, at a price, but I used .348WCF and an RCBS form and ream die, and I think that, or the cheaper method of neck turning, is the best way to go. The shorter length seems quite harmless.

 

8 mm Kropatschek ammo. Not the same as Patrone M.30, or 8x56R.

 

Kropatschek ammo is actually fairly common in both ball and blank, usually in brown paper packets. However, the newest I recall seeing is from 1905. Some might fire, but I would doubt the accuracy or reliability. If you can reprime the Berdan primers you might have a chance to fire the old gal.

 

Many years ago now, I bought some of those blanks, dated in the late 19th and early 20th century, to reload for the Portuguese Guedes, which used what is virtually the same cartridge with a longer length. They were from 54 to 60mm. long, with a hollow wooden bullet. M

No doubt batches varied, but most of them were split at the necks, or did so as a bullet was inserted, so I ended up never firing any. I don't know if it was due to factory rejects, excessive reloading in the past or mercuric primers, which can certainly do that when fired. Opinion varies on whether long-term existence of a mercuric primer can do it unfired.

I used .348 Winchester cases, which proved entirely satisfactory, although they did require thinning of he neck. I used an RCBS form and ream die, but you could turn them on the outside after sizing in a reloading die.

 

Brass and dies are available for rolling your own. Not cheap though. I’ve got all the gear I just need to finish my new reloading bench before I start making up some test loads.


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Brass for 8x56R Krop canbe made from .348 Win (Starline now making)
Size down with Kropatchek die, no need to trim (any lenght between 56 & 58mm is Ok,) then bevel rim to allow cupped bolthead to properly seat case.
Anneal neck.
Load ..324-326 cast lead, 200 grns RN.
Powder 65 grains Black FFFg, with overpowder cotton wool filler, or 4227/ 4198/ Trailboss to suit.
Flat point bullets if you want to use tube mag.
Early (1900s) Blanks can be reloaded if one has .250" Berdan Primers (RWS#6000) used in . .303 British. (Canada, Aust, etc)
Cases need to be annealed. Do work well with care ( 118 years old!!!).
Doc AV

 

I have a case of the blanks that I load with. I have used pulled .326 Lebel bullets with good results.

 

If you try to shoot the Hungarian round in the Kropatschek, you could be in for a world of hurt. The Krop chamber is WAY bigger.

I load a 275 gr .330 lead bullet in mine with 4198 powder. I have formed cases for sale on the trader, if you’re interested. .348 cases are not cheap any more, even from Starline, so shooting the rifle takes a little bit of financial commitment. Not any greater than most other old black powder cartridges, but more than the 8x56r Hungarian. And you will have to bevel the rims to get the brass to chamber if you are forming your own (what I sell it ready to go).

These rifles are really fun at the range. One bit of advice - if you want to really get good use of the mag tube in repeater mode, use as long a bullet as you can find. Many people will use 170 gr round nose .323 bullets, but in my experience they tend to get launched out of battery by the elevator if you are cranking the bolt with some speed. The military matches I shoot have a couple 80 second, 10 shot rounds. Short bullets make that really frustrating, as several leave the gun and occasionally one flips and wants to get loaded backward. Longer bullets keep the base of the cartridge in the elevator, and the bullet can be stopped by the top of the receiver ring when it is thrown upward. Just a suggestion.

 

Further to my previous post.
The Austrian and Portuguese
Made Berdan cases use rge Roth patent anvil system...flashhole through
Anvil...can be decapped with suitable sized pin...If you can't
Get .250 Berdan primers, drill-out pocket for #209 shotshell primers
--.243" or 6.2mm...works well with BP or Cast lead/ fast powder.
Yes, and correct C.Oal is essential for rapid loading
from tube mag.

Doc AV

 

Hoyem remarks the last commercial Krop. ammo was made in the late 1920's. But the rifle/carbine were still in use by Portugal post WWII - ammo?

 

Hoyem remarks the last commercial Krop. ammo was made in the late 1920's.

See my photo - my ammo is marked 1928. If properly stored it will last until after WWII.

 

Portugal, like many other cash-strapped countries, reloaded ammunition, to fill training and colonial needs...and the Roth
Central flashole Berdan case made reloading easy.
The Last AE 8mm Krop Headstamp I know of is 1929, and by then most Krops had been relegated to Border Guards on Spanish Border, and as Police guns in Angola, Mozambique, Goa and East Timor etc. The amount of 8mm. Krop. Ammo consumed in these duties would have been miniscule.
Doc AV.

 

Kropatschecks to the range

I have had a number of Kropats, including a carbine. Surprisingly each had a beautiful bore. I assume those folks were into keeping their bores clean or else they would be 'disciplined'. I reloaded for them using .348 Win brass and a variety of cheap dies including Lee 8mm Lebel. I used both cast and jacketed bullets, especially the Lee .330 cast. Accuracy was good using mild loads. Here are some photos of my rifles and cartridges:

 

Greg, I sent you a PM, Dave

 

I use my 8x50mmR Lebel dies to neck size my cases. Years ago I purchased 500 .348 Win cases for use with various rifles from the Collection.

If you can find them, one of the benefits of the Winchester brass is that it chambers fine without beveling the bases. I use mild loads of 4198 per Donnelly's conversion from black-powder to smokeless, along with 170 grain Hornady round-nose bullets. They shoot very well in all of my Kropatschek's.

Best of luck! You won't be sorry if you tool up to reload for these lovely old rifles.

Warmest regards,

JPS

 

If you can find them, one of the benefits of the Winchester brass is that it chambers fine without beveling the bases.

JPS -

Might be true of the batch of brass you bought in combination with your rifles, but I have formed the Krop from several brands of brass, including many different lots of Winchester, and only found one that didn't require beveling for my rifle. Old Remington-UMC cases (50's or 60's) had a slightly smaller rim with a fair radius on both edges, and I was able to use it without a bevel. All the Winchester brass I have used needed it, and it has come from many different decades of production. Current Starline brass also requires it. Same goes for 50-110 brass. I bevel all rims on Krop brass I sell because of this.

I have received some late run Winchester that had an occasional thinner rim. So maybe there has been some variance over time at Winchester.