Why did the exports from Donnington surplus sales in the 1989 to 1999 period not have the proofs applied?

Was an exemption made for exports at that time?

 

Donnington Ordnance depot was owned by the government and hence exempt.

 

At this point, my view is FR is not just an Indian marking but its still a basket of fog on
who all used it and why.

Pretty much.

 

But so was Weedon in the 1953 to 1968 period, most of the sales came out of that facility. In fact all of the sales in that period were out of one or more of the government storage facilities.

 

At the time, those guns were only available to British registered companies so Sam C. bought Cogswell & Harrison to buy them. Having bought them in the UK as C&W, they were then subject to the Gun Barrel Proof Acts - no Proofee, no sellee. That is what pissed him off. The government could sell them to him out of Proof but he was no allowed to sell them on in that state.

 

Ahhh.. that makes sense. So the difference is that when the MOD sold off arms in the 1989 to 1999 period they sold them directly to foreign companies that then exported them. They never went through the UK local affiliate. Is that interpretation correct?


That would explain why the UK had to re-import Enfield rifles from the US, unlike the pre 1968 days when Parker Hale/C&W, etc would retain a portion of the arms for local supply, all of the arms were exported to Canada in the case of century, or the US in the case of Navy/PW arms.

That does raise the issue though, I have seen arms imported into the US post 1986 that were marked with the Interarms import mark, but lack commercial proofs. Now in this period Interams was a UK company and had a warehouse in Manchester. How did Interarms get around the Proof requirement? was it a case fo Interams USA stored the arms at Interams UK or something like that?

I know these are petty points but of some interest in understanding the arms trade.

 

I wonder if any of the UK Interarms ex-employees are still around and contactable?


I'm pretty sure that they would have a good idea about the origin of all the "FR" stamped rifles & woodwork (and the other rifles stamped with other letter combinations in the same font/location).


My own view is that "FR" was batch marking for a huge surplus sale to Pakistan, of which the woodwork was successfully exported (hence its recent reappearance from Pakistan) and the rifles were embargoed in the same manner as the UK government rifle exports (hence the large numbers that turned up on the civilian surplus market).


(the Indian "FR" stamped into the metal butt socket being an entirely unrelated marking)

 

Since the topic seems to be coming around again for its once a decade or so airing...

"Huge surplus sale" and taking the time to individually stamp each piece, down to wood spares, with 2 separate stamps just don't seem to me to be concepts that fit together very well.

The other stamps found in the same font/location tend to be known British markings (ZF, Z-BER, etc.). And unless the gentleman (who should know) that told me that "FR" was a known, if rare mark used in the British army system was telling tales, I still tend to lean towards the simpler explanation.

My take on it anyway.

 

Jrhead75..

so....... what was the mark for according to this source?

Was the explanation by way of an old WWII armorer who spoke to Capt P.L.?

 

It was to designate an issue that required attention at the factory short of a full FTR. It was from P.L. himself. Important to note that he did not associate it with the Lee Enfield at all, just that the mark existed within the British system. The theoretical association is mine alone.

I've got the conversation stashed away somewhere, I'll have to have a look around for it.

 

This will shine no light on the mystery, but I have a 44 Maltby with an FR on the butt.