Just picked up some FNM 8mm mauser,headstamp is 57 and 8-61.Is this considered "hot"or "mild" as I plan on feeding it to my Hakim and maybe my M95M soon.Thanks,HB
HstryBff
"hot" like mythical MG ammo? No.
"mild" like Winchester Softpoint? No.
Just standard European Military spec 198gr FMJBT ball ammo. I think your 57date stuff may be Corrosive..... The 61 date batch should be NONcorrosive.
My Hakim shoots Portugese 8mm very well. Good stuff.
"mild" like Winchester Softpoint? No.
Just standard European Military spec 198gr FMJBT ball ammo. I think your 57date stuff may be Corrosive..... The 61 date batch should be NONcorrosive.
My Hakim shoots Portugese 8mm very well. Good stuff.
What Ammolab said is pretty much it. The German rifle caliber 7,9 for the a/craft is usuable in any weapon in that caliber. There was some that was double crimped due to high cyclic rate, and avoidance of a misfire loosing a bullet in the fast firing MG81z blister packs on the JU-88s, and ME410s, etc..But you can fire this ammo out of a rifle or semi. Now the Russian ShaKas 54R round was loaded at a higher pressure, but the German 7,9 SmE, s.S. PmK, SmK. etc. can all be used w/ a Mauser. The Luftwaffe usually got better quality brass cased ammo when the Army was getting the steel laquered stuff. Doc A.V. once commented on how ground troops would love to scrounge ammo from crashed Luftwaffe or grounded planes, or as Marines always have done "acquire them in some way".
"Now the Russian ShaKas 54R round was loaded at a higher pressure"
Not even sure about this one... Actual translations of Soviet ammunition tech manuals (not available during the cold war) state that the difference between "ShaKas ammo" and other 7.62x54R ammo is in the primer and the thicker construction of the cartridge base. All done to handle the violent, rapid cyclic rate of the weapon.
Chrony tests of ShaKas ammo next to standard API shows similar velocity. I doubt even this ammo is "MG HOT".
The Germans did load a HV round (green band on bullet) but things like this are a RARE exception..... The main point being... Most Military ammo is loaded to the practical limit of weapon technology for its time. To increase the pressure would lead to TROUBLE with both the cartridge and weapon functioning. To make a round for your MG that would NOT be suitable for the millions of rifles with the same chamber would be plain stupid. MGs do not need "HOT" ammo to function, they are no more than semi auto weapons that pull their own trigger. Springfield, Garand, Browning MG...same ammo...all shoot AOK!
Not even sure about this one... Actual translations of Soviet ammunition tech manuals (not available during the cold war) state that the difference between "ShaKas ammo" and other 7.62x54R ammo is in the primer and the thicker construction of the cartridge base. All done to handle the violent, rapid cyclic rate of the weapon.
Chrony tests of ShaKas ammo next to standard API shows similar velocity. I doubt even this ammo is "MG HOT".
The Germans did load a HV round (green band on bullet) but things like this are a RARE exception..... The main point being... Most Military ammo is loaded to the practical limit of weapon technology for its time. To increase the pressure would lead to TROUBLE with both the cartridge and weapon functioning. To make a round for your MG that would NOT be suitable for the millions of rifles with the same chamber would be plain stupid. MGs do not need "HOT" ammo to function, they are no more than semi auto weapons that pull their own trigger. Springfield, Garand, Browning MG...same ammo...all shoot AOK!
My thought wasn't hotter ammo was needed to function: More like they would choose to load mg ammo hotter so they could get better effect firing at several hundred yards. I'm guessing the difference I'm looking at is heavy ball v. light ball, which probably means pressure differences within safe range in most cases.
I know the italians in WWII made different ammo completely for their mg's, 8x59 and 6.5x52, though whether they were completely stupid is up to debate.
I know the italians in WWII made different ammo completely for their mg's, 8x59 and 6.5x52, though whether they were completely stupid is up to debate.
If you want a comparison.
It chronos about the same as 50s Yugo. It has a LARGE variation of condition and accuracy. Depending on lot and storage conditions.
Recoil is about the same as 50s Yugo.
Accuracy is renowned to be exc., but we did not find that to be true. So, I assume it varies by lot.
It is not as accurate as seventies or newer Yugo. We tested about five cases of it. Some of the ammo was in very poor condition with corrosion on the outside.
I have never heard of any reason not to shoot it out of semi auto rifles. We tested in bolt action only.
All of it was good enough for plinking silouhettes. But not good enough for precise paper target work.
Inconsistancy is the key word on this ammo. For over forty cents per round shipped from SAMCO, this ammo is a last resort for shooting. The Hirtenberge they have is at least re loadable, so that makes it a better buy IMO.
IMO the new 8mm "sniper" ammo that is currently on the market, is a better buy. Both are Berdan primed and I think the "sniper" ammo will be a little more consistant.
At least we still have choices.
It chronos about the same as 50s Yugo. It has a LARGE variation of condition and accuracy. Depending on lot and storage conditions.
Recoil is about the same as 50s Yugo.
Accuracy is renowned to be exc., but we did not find that to be true. So, I assume it varies by lot.
It is not as accurate as seventies or newer Yugo. We tested about five cases of it. Some of the ammo was in very poor condition with corrosion on the outside.
I have never heard of any reason not to shoot it out of semi auto rifles. We tested in bolt action only.
All of it was good enough for plinking silouhettes. But not good enough for precise paper target work.
Inconsistancy is the key word on this ammo. For over forty cents per round shipped from SAMCO, this ammo is a last resort for shooting. The Hirtenberge they have is at least re loadable, so that makes it a better buy IMO.
IMO the new 8mm "sniper" ammo that is currently on the market, is a better buy. Both are Berdan primed and I think the "sniper" ammo will be a little more consistant.
At least we still have choices.
ShKAS ammo is not "hotter", it has a thicker primer cup and a stronger case head for use in the super high cyclic rate ShKAS MG. This ammo was specially marked to designate it's use in the ShKAS, not to prevent it from being used in other weapons. Ammo NOT marked for the ShKAS was not to be used in the ShKAS.
The German "v-munition" loads in 7,9 Mauser were in fact designed and intended for use only in the MG-17 and possibly the MG-81. These were higher velocity loads specificly designed to give a flatter trajectory, increased hitting power and shorter flight time all in an attempt to improve air-to-air combat performance of a rifle caliber machingun that was increasingly becoming obsolete. Now, could this ammunition be used in other weapons? Yes. These were not "higher pressure" loads, rather they used a different powder to acheive the higher velocity. The downside was a greatly reduced barrel life. Reportedly, some snipers liked it for it's flatter trajectory. But, the MG-17 even had to be set up special to fire the v-munition cartridges compared to the standard loads. The two types could not be mixed. German brass cased 7,9 was primarily issued to the Luftwaffe, but performance-wise it was identical to the steel cased stuff. The Luftwaffe preferred brass cased ammo as being more reliable than steel cases, but late war steel cases were perfected and a dry lube process was adopted that made the steel cases superior to brass according to the claims of some of the manufacturers.
D.D.
The German "v-munition" loads in 7,9 Mauser were in fact designed and intended for use only in the MG-17 and possibly the MG-81. These were higher velocity loads specificly designed to give a flatter trajectory, increased hitting power and shorter flight time all in an attempt to improve air-to-air combat performance of a rifle caliber machingun that was increasingly becoming obsolete. Now, could this ammunition be used in other weapons? Yes. These were not "higher pressure" loads, rather they used a different powder to acheive the higher velocity. The downside was a greatly reduced barrel life. Reportedly, some snipers liked it for it's flatter trajectory. But, the MG-17 even had to be set up special to fire the v-munition cartridges compared to the standard loads. The two types could not be mixed. German brass cased 7,9 was primarily issued to the Luftwaffe, but performance-wise it was identical to the steel cased stuff. The Luftwaffe preferred brass cased ammo as being more reliable than steel cases, but late war steel cases were perfected and a dry lube process was adopted that made the steel cases superior to brass according to the claims of some of the manufacturers.
D.D.
Brass Vs Steel 7,9mm cartridges
The major reason the Ground troops on the Russian Front scrounged Luftwaffe brass 7,9 ammo was that it was more reliable at low temperature than steel cased ammo.
The reasons for this are as follows: Ammo for High altiturde Aircraft use must have 100% primer reliability (Synchronised Guns) and Low temperature stability ( ie, at high altitude, even in the tropics, the air temperature ios similar to a Russian Winter on the ground.
Primers are affected by very low temperatures.
Secondly, steel case technology still had extractability issues with extractability in 1941-44, due to cases "rebound" (or lack of it) and lacquer fouling problems...Brass did not have this problem, at either normal summer temperatures or at Russian Winter temps.
Thirdly, even though loaded to the same ballistic characteristics, Luftwaffe Cartridges were, more often than not, loaded with progressive burning Tubular grain Powder, as opposed to Ground cartridges (Army) which were mostly loaded ( almost all) with "Blattchen" Powder(Flake) giving different pressure-wave characteristics.
All these features were of little importance to the German MG gunner, who wanted only for his piece to work reliably in a winter where even touching bare metal with bare skin left the skin welded(frozen) to the metal, and where gunners slept with their guns under the same blankets to keep them "workable".
Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
The major reason the Ground troops on the Russian Front scrounged Luftwaffe brass 7,9 ammo was that it was more reliable at low temperature than steel cased ammo.
The reasons for this are as follows: Ammo for High altiturde Aircraft use must have 100% primer reliability (Synchronised Guns) and Low temperature stability ( ie, at high altitude, even in the tropics, the air temperature ios similar to a Russian Winter on the ground.
Primers are affected by very low temperatures.
Secondly, steel case technology still had extractability issues with extractability in 1941-44, due to cases "rebound" (or lack of it) and lacquer fouling problems...Brass did not have this problem, at either normal summer temperatures or at Russian Winter temps.
Thirdly, even though loaded to the same ballistic characteristics, Luftwaffe Cartridges were, more often than not, loaded with progressive burning Tubular grain Powder, as opposed to Ground cartridges (Army) which were mostly loaded ( almost all) with "Blattchen" Powder(Flake) giving different pressure-wave characteristics.
All these features were of little importance to the German MG gunner, who wanted only for his piece to work reliably in a winter where even touching bare metal with bare skin left the skin welded(frozen) to the metal, and where gunners slept with their guns under the same blankets to keep them "workable".
Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
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