[Russian Reloads]

I agree and understand what you are saying.

That said. Relying on finding used steel cases to load, in a pinch, is NOT a good plan. Any you find outside will be rusty after even a day or two, you won't find them at the scrap yard, nobody picks them up, indoor ranges typically don't allow steel core ammo... all that equals hard or impossible to find, unless you have been saving steel cases, in which case you should just buy a bunch of surplus ammo NOW to get through the hiccups.

I also don't feel that they are actually more durable. I've had many split necks on the first shot, right out of the spam can.

You could apply the same "nobody will make these com-bloc rounds" logic to just about any less common ammo too, try finding ammo or brass for like .218 Bee...Japanese milsurp calibers...old rim-fire. etc.

I am not telling you that your idea and equipment is bad or stupid. I think it's a great idea for certain calibers. But the bottom line is - if you plan to have a vested interest in a certain caliber for the foreseeable future, plan ahead NOW and spend the money on loaded ammo, brass, projectiles, and dies while you can.

Well I have tons of proof as to the durability of the cartridges.... yes the ones that split on the first firing were already split from the factory. I have had brass split the same way. It is like any other cartridge when you go to reload them you do your inspection of the cartridge first. Out of probably 3 to 4 thousand rounds I have reloaded in these cartridges I think I have had maybe 5 to 10 split necks and only one rupture at the shoulder so I would disagree with you on the durability. I can say I do not know of anybody that has reloaded more of those than I have... So I learned a ton in the process. Of course if they are going to split they usually do so right from the get go. Most people that shoot the spam can stuff usually have picked up a bunch. Well I dont know about the rust in a few days but then again I live in the desert. The rust problem is usually due to the berdan corrosive primers. What Im saying is that when you do fire your rifle pick the cartridges up and put them in a bag and take them home. Or when you are at a range pick them up when you find them. Most ranges scoop them up and throw them away daily so there are plenty around to pick up and usually they are glad you are taking them away. Yes there are many cartridges that are very hard to find reloadable brass for them we have gotten many inquiries about them and inquiries about ones that are commonly available. A few that surprised me were people wanting to convert .308 Berdan cartridges which I couldnt see a reason to until I realized how durable the steel is compared to the brass. Many rifles that auto eject are very hard on the brass yet they dont do much damage to a steel cartridge and a few come to mind like the Dragonov or PSL types. So when someone is trying to make handloads they are reluctant to shoot brass because they dont last at all. I have disproven many myths since I started the company and when I hear the excuses as to accuracy and hard on the dies ect I show them my .50 MOA groups and show them cartridges I have reloaded over 30 times. I stopped keeping track of the times I have reloaded them. We will be coming out with a new system of our dies that will be able to cover many of those cartridges that you cant get brass for such as the jap 7.7 and many other obscure ones. When I hear about labor intensive I just laugh because its a one time conversion process and you can convert them really fast with the system I designed. And yes I tell people to buy when its available because tomorrow it may not be...

 

[milprileb]

This is all nonsense. There is no economy to be gained using outdated Berdan cases and converting to boxer.

It makes no sense to even debate /discuss this unless you are flogging tools to make conversions and are profit driven.

Profit driven ? That shoe fit anyone ?

 

[Russian Reloads]

AHHH BUT ONE CAN BUY A SMALL ARSENAL OF BOXER BRASS WITH THE SAME FUNDS THE TOOLS COST....
I HAVE 500 plus swiss gp11 cases, and a couple thousand primers to match, and the lovely rcbs tool..but will likely use hydraulic impact removal this summer..
definitely a summer task

Enjoy the berdan primers while they last........there will not be any more coming into the country anytime soon due to the banning of many Russian things this administration has done. And it is funny that I have been getting a HUGE demand for the 7.5 x 55 and 6.5x55 swiss so that one is coming out soon..... We will be having a new system coming out and hopefully our prices will be dropping because of some new manufacturing.....but that could be the end of summer before that takes place.

 

[Kursk]

I think the best investment is to purchase milsurp ammo of all calibers while it is here and available. Hoarding and stashing is the best option. As mentioned, buying spam cans for less than 25 cents a round is cheaper than what you can buy bullets and powder.

Can anyone list (if any) common brass calibers that can be reformed into 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x54? It would be better to buy once fired brass that is boxer primed (if there is any).

I do know that I am using 30-06 brass and reforming it to 8x57.

 

[ar10ar15man]

i think the seller is missing "economies of scale"
your tool cost more than replacing my brass with boxer primed brass...which nearly lasts forever when annealed.
we shoot milsurplus when it is cheap.....spending nearly $200 to shoot a $100 rifle is not what most do.

i am on the other end of the scale....mainly match bullets and lapua/norma brass....but i do not plink, i compete.

 

[DocAV]

Reloading Berdan Cases (I won't say "Brass", as I include Steel cases as well) is a simple and quick way to save Money if (1) you have tons of Berdan Milsurp cases to use (2) you have access to Thousands of Berdan Primers, (3) you are Not "Boxer Obsessed". Luckily in Australia, I fall into all three categories, plus my first handloading experiences in the 1960s were evenly divided between Boxer (M1 Carbine, .30/06) and Berdan ( .303 Brit, 7,9mm German).
I developed techniques for both types of rtelaoding, and always made sure I had "sufficient " Berdan Primers for all sizes ( as were available in the 70s and 80s) Total stock, is about 500K, with 400K .217, the rest spread between .177, 199", .250" and .254"...Given that I manufacture Movie Blanks iusing AMA, FN, Z, S&B, PPU, French, and Aussie Berdan Cases, I am well supplied, but only Just.

As to decapping, I use both Hydraulic ( for Lightly crimped/uncramped Primers) or the Chisel/icepick system for hard or tightly crimped Primers.
Chisels/icepicks are made from 4 inch Ramset Masonry Nails ( Hard, cheap, and easily ground to shape.).

Hydraulic uses a "Universal system Rifle (.444" to .560" diameter cases/rims ) and a smaller unit for Pistol and small rifle cases ( 9mm, 7,62, and even 5,56 cases).

Now for "conversion" of Pockets ( ie, .217" to .210 Boxer: The Process is feasible and useful with Brass cases ( 7,5 swiss, etc) but is a bit more labour intensive on Steel cases.

Conversion of .250/.254 cases (British and Russki) is more Problematical...a Pocket sleeve adaptor, or a new Pocket insert is required, or drill out to #209 or #245 Shotgun primers... The .217 Ball-Pocket-swage method won't work on the Bigger Brit/Russki cases.

Small rifle/Pistol cases, again, a Pocket Swager to reduce the .177" Berdan to .175 Boxer is feasible; the Only really tool-intensive work is opening out .199/.204" cases to .210 ( Dutch and Italian cases). But that is relatively easy. (Lathe required.)

Why do it? Only in "Dire straights" ( No ammo at all in that calibre, drought of Berdan Primers, "legal" Objections, etc.) Of course, one will do it because "it can be done" ( Human Nature).

I personally, hate seeing anything go to waste which with a little work (Not necessarily Profitable in Money terms) can be turned to further use....My wife decries me as an Obsessive Hoarder ( of "really useful stuff" ) but doesn't complain when it pays the household bills. I do "dump" several tons of true waste each year ( brass swarf & trimmings and spent primers etc to the Metal merchant, Cardboard to the Paper recycler, Plastics Idem ( found a useful end to shredded shotshells)...only mushy wet cardboard, rotting timber, and floor sweepings go to Land Fill.

Clean cardboard and CocaCola Cartons get recycled into Cartridge and Bullet Packaging, Timber Dunnage from containers into good quality Shelving and Shelf Boxes,( even replica Ammo Boxes); Pine & Hardwood Offcuts into all manner of Workshop accessories; Sawdust into Environmentally-friendly Oil absorber ( spills, etc).

But that is my (quirky) take on things...why not save a bit of money when you can...unless you take too much time doing it ( "Time is Money" too).

Doc AV

Down under, where Obummer is a temporary flyspeck on the Local scene ( a couple of visits only).

 

[Mosinitis]

I have nothing productive to say, other than, I've converted berdan... the brass is from rounds well over 100 years old, and I needed the brass to make cases for a even older cartridge (.41 swiss)
I find that drilling out the primer, then unifroming/swaging the primer pocket is less hassle than digging the damn things out...
otherwise, I'm just here to watch... these are fun...
where is that popcorn eating emoticon

 

[VA-Vet]

Enjoy the berdan primers while they last........there will not be any more coming into the country anytime soon due to the banning of many Russian things this administration has done. And it is funny that I have been getting a HUGE demand for the 7.5 x 55 and 6.5x55 swiss so that one is coming out soon..... We will be having a new system coming out and hopefully our prices will be dropping because of some new manufacturing.....but that could be the end of summer before that takes place.

RR,

I got tons of berdan primed once fired cases. Do you want to buy them from me????

 

[gwurly]

Bravo to RR for addressing this problem, I hope you do well. As of now it may not make sense to reload Russian steel but it may in the future. I don't reload but I save the brass (now I'll save the steel also). I just got my last super cheap batch of 54R and may never see this price again, or run out.

 

[ammolab]

Please someone invent a easy, quick way to decap Berdan cases. I have the RCBS, done the water thing, but I will Buy your tool that works better, quicker and DRYER than what we got now.

 

[chuter]

I'm sold . Where can I buy one? April Fools!:laugh:

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

A while back Albanian and Chinese 7.62x54 was plentiful and cheap .. 29.95 a spam of 440 and a lot of people didn't like it, ugly wrinkles on the cases, the Albanian maybe 4 or 5 in a spam can had rim thickness issues... but both were brass case and take the .217 berdan primer, the Chinese was lead core .. and they shot well enough.. occasional flier.. but, taking the long view, that was what I bought and stacked deep... Still isn't really economical to reload 7.62x54 IMHO, but the day will come.. and the way things are going it will be powder not brass that will be hard to get, Primers last a long time.. and I have enough for a few years of shooting or a lifetime of hunkering down. Graf & Sons did a run of Boxer brass for 7.5x55 Swiss for a real decent price 8 maybe 9 years ago stocked up.. .303, grabbed all the HXP I could. The opportunities were there and at prices that were never going to go lower.. if you know anything about ammo and the materials they are made of..
Folks can't do much about that now.. but the lesson is still good today, from time to time crazy deals come up, if it is a caliber you shoot or plan on shooting.. buy it cheap and stack it deep.

And if there is a big enough demand , somebody will make or source berdan primers, sanctions don't last forever.. powder will come back at some point

 

[Ronbo6]

I see this product as filling a real need.

Just ask those people out there desperately trying to keep their VZ52 running, and can't get hold of Berdan primers what they think of the potential of this product for them. EDIT: the same philosophy also goes now for the 5.45X39 shooters

Personally I would prefer to convert my 7.5X55 GP11 brass to Boxer than go through all the rigamarole of trying to find and play with the soon-to-be-Unobtainium Berdan primers, and I see this as resolving a LOT of issues for me in 7.62X25 as well.

 

[chuter]

I jest because of the unabashed sales promotion that I was watching. There is a definite need for products that give flexibility to our ammo supply. If it works well, it could be worth it's weight in a crunch. How soon some forget. Stock up while the supply is here and research alternative methods. Knowledge is the key. Heck, I keep a old Lee loader for 54r and have produced a lot of ammo tap, tap, tapping. It works well and I can throw it in my pack if needed. IMHO.

 

[Russian Reloads]

what caliber are they?

 

[chuter]

what caliber are they?

Who, me? .311. It says .308 but .311 work better in mine. I guess that Lee will switch it out if needed.

 

[Russian Reloads]

And Yes stock up now while you can.........I have spam cans sitting there just in case needed but the fun part is now I can just keep on shooting this stuff and well reloading steel is easy now as long as you pick up your cases and not always losing them. People as me why I reload steel....because I can. And accuracy? I shoot average grouping sizes at just over half MOA with them out of my Mosin. You only have to convert them once.......its like buying brass but you have do do work on the occasionally and cleaning and normal care....same thing. Now if you are not a reloader and you dont plan on doing it well I suggest you start getting into it now while you can and supplies are to be had....... then you have something to shoot and have fun with and the other stuff packed away in case its needed. Plus I can customize my rounds now and even shooting out of my AK the cartridges dont get beat up on extraction like brass will. I can make tailored sub sonic rounds or throw some cast lead into them and shoot. Ammo is cheap today.......and maybe tomorrow. But next week? We have all seen how fast it can go and you never know when you might get some or if you will ever be able to get some anymore. If you can afford to stockpile 500 pieces of brass then you are lucky. Just think if suddenly the ammo supply drys up and you can no longer get any available brass because nobody is selling theirs.... What do you have? Steel. Thats how I came up with this tool. I couldnt find any brass at the time when I needed it and was looking for it. Same with bullets.. little did I know I would end up making a business out of it. I was only going to make dies for myself and just go on my happy merry way and then I thought wow if I have a problem getting cartridges and bullets well then others do as well.

Now you can find the brass again and now bullets in the .311 caliber are becoming available again. But Now I dont have to look for brass........nor do I have to look for bullets because I can cast them. I do prefer my Sierra Match kings though over my lead anyday.......but when I couldnt find the sierras or others... Guess what? I was still out shooting all the time. And I didnt have to think that the spam cans I had might be the last ones I ever have a chance to get. I guess when you start thinking about all the what ifs........you really start to see things around you every day and in the political climate that is constantly changing. People say well I buy rounds for 25 cents a piece..... Guess what? I shoot rounds for 10 cents a piece.... 3 cent primer and about 7 cents for powder..... I get buckets of lead for next to nothing to cast. Sure it takes some time but I guess its a hobby for most and its something you just do. Its an investment into your rifle.... like a tool for it is the way I look at it. it makes you just a little more self reliant. I have customers in many countries that tell me that it is a life saver to them literally. They cant legally own any military surplus ammo or bullets in their country... and guess what they have tons of just laying around because of all the warfare... Steel. Now they can hunt again and defend themselves. I dont force anybody to buy.....I just let people know that now they can actually do it. If brass was easy to find everywhere I wouldnt be selling any of these. So yes stock up with everything you can from bullets to powder and primers and spam cans and what ever it might take to get you through because the only thing we can guarantee is the past. The future changes daily.

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

Is the commercial over yet?

 

[Ronbo6]

what caliber are they?

If you are asking about the VZ52, that is a unique, Czech-only made round. 7.62X45, which is sort-of a '7.62X39 Long". That ammunition is getting VERY hard to find, which kept me from ever buying a VZ52.

The VZ52/57's were basically the same rifle, but converted to use 7.62X39 instead.

 

[DocAV]

Vz 52 Ammo is easy to make...Buy Prvi 6,5 x52 Carcano cases (Boxer, Brass) and an RCBS/CH4D die set, and form your cases.Trim, anneal and you are ready to load. Use 120-130 grain .308s. No reason for not being able to feed a Vz52...and then, the old Berdan Primed ammo in this calibre is (a) Corrosive (b) odd sized (.199") Berdan Primer...can be converted to Large Rifle (.210").

Doc AV

( I Made Vz52 7,62x45 cases by Nonte's method, re-sizing 7,62 Nato cases from .470 head to .444 Head ( four ring die Passes, plus FLS and anneal.) Uszewd both Berdan (Aussie Mil) and Boxer (Commercial) cases.)