[Slickmick9514]

I am looking for more info on this gun. I bought it at a live auction, not knowing what it was, other than a 12 ga SxS. What info I have found is that it is a BRNO ZP49. What I can't find is the coralation of the Arabic engraving? It is engraved: Made in A.R.E. which I assume is the Arab Republic of Egypt?

I have been told that it has Birmingham proof marks, but I don't know what a proof mark is or how relevant it is to the gun?

So basically just looking for more info overall. Thanks.

 

[Just_Me]

This is definitely an Egyptian made firearm, is has the Maadi Factory 54 symbol stamped on your 7th picture. Its the first one that I have seen a photo of. Since its marked A.R.E. It would have been made After 1971. Did you see any import marks on it?

The Arabic numbers on it say "2857-1987". I wonder if the 1987 is the year.

Photo of the Maadi Factory 54 Mark:

 

[Just_Me]

Looks like the ZP-49 shotgun was imported to Cape Gerardeau Mo.

I called some friendly and helpful folks at the the Cape County Gun Club and got some useful information, http://www.capecountygunclub.com/. The importer was Cape Outfitters, and unfortunately the owner Don Trum passed away a few year ago. His entire inventory was sold to Jaqua's Fine Guns in Ohio. Cape Outfitters was a smaller importer, known for high quality inventory at high end prices.

He did some imports occasionally, so I dont expect many of these to be in circulation.

 

[Kyrie]

Czech ZP-49 shotgun. The engraving isn't Arabic; it's Hebrew. I'd suggest forgetting Egypt and Arabic.

 

[Just_Me]

Czech ZP-49 shotgun. The engraving isn't Arabic; it's Hebrew. I'd suggest forgetting Egypt and Arabic.

Sorry, this is definitely a Maadi Factory 54 mark, I have it on several other Egyptian firearms.

Its also a Czech ZP-49 clone, Egypt cloned some other BRNO firearms as well. The Egyptian Mansoura rifle is also a Czech clone of the BRNO #2 Rifle. It seems that the Egyptians had license to build a few Czech rifles.

 

[Slickmick9514]

Thanks, for all the info. Good stuff!

 

[Kyrie]

Sorry, this is definitely a Maadi Factory 54 mark, I have it on several other Egyptian firearms.

Its also a Czech ZP-49 clone, Egypt cloned some other BRNO firearms as well. The Egyptian Mansoura rifle is also a Czech clone of the BRNO #2 Rifle. It seems that the Egyptians had license to build a few Czech rifles.

Sorry, but no.

What you are identifying as the "Maadi Factory 54 mark" only resembles that mark, and also resembles two Hebrew characters, one stamped over the other. The "ARE" in "Made in ARE" (in English, no less!) is the (ISO 3166-1 alpha-3) country code for the United Arab Emirates and has no relationship to Egypt. The Czech Brno manufacturing marks have been partially ground off and Prague proof marks completely ground off with evidence of that grinding still visible. The places where the Czech markings originally existed have been over-stamped with bogus markings.

I understand you really, really want this to be an Egyptian gun, but there isn't any evidence to support that attribution.

 

[Just_Me]

Kyrie; I think the photo below of my Helwan pistol with the exact same mark will help clear this up. I can also post numerous photos of other Egyptian firearms marked A.R.E.

All of those Arabic stamps would be a whole lot forgery effort for someone to mark it as Egyptian, for what gain?

we have some experienced Israeli collectors on this board (johnny c) who could probably debunk the Hebrew script theory

 

[Just_Me]

And just in case you have any doubts about the A.R.E. stamp: here is a photo from another one of my Helwan pistols

 

[jonny c.]

Czech ZP-49 shotgun. The engraving isn't Arabic; it's Hebrew. I'd suggest forgetting Egypt and Arabic.

OK, I read, write, and speak Hebrew, and can even curse a bit in Arabic. That ain't Hebrew. JustMe's information is 100% correct. No doubt, no question.

 

[DocAV]

I concur, I don't speak either Hebrew or Arabic ( except some greetings and curses) but I recognise Both Alphabets ( Scripts); Hebrew is consistent and easy, Arabic is variable, although "printed" Arabic is more Consistent.

The Arabic script numbers are the transliteration of the serial number, plus the Year 1987. The British Proof Marks indicate that the Firearm passed through the UK "in Trade"; the Metric Measurements of the Barrels ( choke etc) are consistent with both European and Modern Egyptian markings ( as well as the included Arabic Script after the "17.x" measurements.)

ARE is "Arab Republic of Egypt" ( it used to be "UAR" when Syria was included in the 1950s). and the Emirates are Officially "UAE" ( United Arab Emirates...nothing to do with Egypt, Syria etc.)

Whether they were made "all-up" in Egypt, or simply assembled from CZ-made Parts for Local Egyptian consumption, I can't say. Egypt certainly had the skills and capacity to make shotguns completely for their own use, even with Czech assistance in design etc... Bird shooting is quite Popular in Egypt along the Nile...a good SxS double is better than a Caplock fowling piece...and the British taught them how to "shoot" birds "properly".

Doc AV