[swede]

I think "Swede" was trying to say GRAM 61 and 63: GRAM (vapen) – Wikipedia

I do not think these are the same models . These are dated from 1961 & 1962 in 6.5x55 .

The fm/58 and fm/59 are probably earlier & in 7.62 NATO . I was not there , although born & living at that time in the USA .

 

[swede]

Here are a number of the fm/61 Gram listed in the Digital Museum :

DigitaltMuseum found 568 hits

DigitaltMuseum is a common database for Norwegian and Swedish museums and collections. It provides access to more than four million photographs, objects, works of art and buildings.

digitaltmuseum.se

 

[bokila]

the Gram63 looked like this

 

[bokila]

If you look at the fabrication and design of parts back then and compare to this AG43 - the AG43 parts around the end of the hand-guard look like they where more recently made, except maybe the sling band

 

[swede]

I found a fm/59 photo from SARCO's website many years ago . I do not know how it is listed in the Digital Museum , as I cannot find it .
Notice the RED wax in the disc cutout , so probably in need of an arsenal rework .

 

[swede]

A Google search shows us more of the fm/59 rifle .

Swedish FM59 Ljungman

The Swedish FM59 Ljungman was a conversion of the AG42B to use box magazines, the 7.62mm NATO cartridge, and a short-stroke gas piston system.

www.forgottenweapons.com

 

[bokila]

You are absolutely correct - they changed to 7.62x51 NATO and the larger 20 round magazine on some of their test rifles. Again, if you look at the details of how the rifles was made - around the gas block for instance - something is wrong if you compare the ag43

 

[300432280]

@swede @bokila @superbee303 @Hopdevil @Leon @DisasterDog
I just had an opportunity to inspect this rifle closely in person without taking it apart, there are few things I found about the rifle:
1: The finish on the buttplate, receiver and receiver cover is not exactly blued, it's more like a black paint-ish finish
2: The gas tube cover cross section is square
3: The vent hole on each side of upper handguard is not exactly symmetric, the hole that is close to the receiver direction is slightly larger on one side
4: The finger grove position on the stock matches exactly where the finger grove position on a AG42B stock
5: The front ferrule is not blued, it looks a little bit brown, and it's colour is different from the blued colour such as barrel
6: There are two barrel bands: the one band that closes to the muzzle, is blued; the one band that closes to the receiver, is the same material and colour as the front ferrule, there is not Swedish crown on either of them
7: The one band that closes to the muzzle (front barrel band) is locked by band spring in a strange way. there's a cut out on at the bottom of the front barrel band, and the band spring locked into the cutout
8: Between the front ferrule and the front barrel band, at the bottom of the lower handguard, there's cylindrical shape grove, it's use is unknown
9: The bore looks ok and it looks been shot, rifling is strong
10: the front ferrule and rear barrel band is bolt on to the stock

Everything else looks identical to the regular AG42B, let me know if you need any more details to identify the origin of this rifle

 

[Hejsan]

Good observations. So is your final estimation that it is a Eskilstuna tool room demonstration model circa 1955-56 or a civilan basement workshop done by a Canadian with a good degree of talent?

 

[Leon]

Hejsan beat me to the same question. Since the rifle is in Canada, would it not be possible to trace its registration history?
I still tend to favor the proof-of-concept theory. Had an obviously skilled and well equipped bubba made this rifle, I would expect he also would have gone to the trouble to blue the special parts needed to get a better match to the original. As an Eskilstuna experiment, the specially made parts would only be finished with the easiest and simplest coating for rust prevention, since appearance would have been of no significance in the testing procedures.

 

[bokila]

Hejsan beat me to the same question. Since the rifle is in Canada, would it not be possible to trace its registration history?
I still tend to favor the proof-of-concept theory. Had an obviously skilled and well equipped bubba made this rifle, I would expect he also would have gone to the trouble to blue the special parts needed to get a better match to the original. As an Eskilstuna experiment, the specially made parts would only be finished with the easiest and simplest coating for rust prevention, since appearance would have been of no significance in the testing procedures.

Thats an interesting theory

 

[300432280]

@Hejsan The owner kindly mentioned that this rifle belongs to his friend, his friend is Korean who has own this rifle for many years, and this rifle comes to his friend just like this
@Leon unfortunately, except for Quebec, we are not longer using registration system for non-restricted class firearm such as this one, the earliest evidence I can trace is above

just to add onto the fact that the metal parts such as the front ferrule and the rear barrel band looks to be made to a nice shape, and the cut out is NOT cruelly cut, the edge of the metal and wood are not sharp. looks to be a delicate work done by someone who knows his tools

 

[Leon]

...just to add onto the fact that the metal parts such as the front ferrule and the rear barrel band looks to be made to a nice shape, and the cut out is NOT cruelly cut, the edge of the metal and wood are not sharp. looks to be a delicate work done by someone who knows his tools

Thanks for the update. My suspicion remains that it was an Eskilstuna tool room project.

 

[bokila]

Thanks for the update. My suspicion remains that it was an Eskilstuna tool room project.

You might be right - technically the only thing they did was to shorten the barrel and the stock - the gas block seems to be in the same position and then make a new upper handguard and some metal pieces to tie it together - if the only thing requested from this "project" was a shorter type rifle then should be an easy thing to do

 

[Leon]

In 1961 Sweden adopted the fully tracked Pansarbandvagn 301. This replaced an open top wheeled personnel carrier, so with the AG42b still in service, the need for a shorter rifle that would fit better inside a cramped and fully enclosed APC was obvious. This is why I think it plausible that this mystery "AG43" was developed to meet this need several years before the AK4 (Heckler & Koch G3) was adopted.

 

[bokila]

Well - the length of the AK4 is close to what I assume this one is - since the AG42 is around 47" and the AK4 around 41" - cut away 6" and you have. AG43

Still interested in this one - anyone having experience with importing from Canada? Done a couple from France and that has been a pain not even talking about the time it takes

 

[swede]

I had a CG63E without sights imported from Canada by Leroy's in Montana , mid-90's . He charged me $100 plus shipping to my FFL . After the Canadian paper work was done , they exchanged it across the border . No telling how complicated importation is now ????????????

" Foudofoot " spent a large sum importing a 1929 dated m/96 from a French auction . It could not be imported directly into the USA from France . Had to ship to Germany before coming to the USA . Took over 2 years as best I recall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bokila]

I had a CG63E without sights imported from Canada by Leroy's in Montana , mid-90's . He charged me $100 plus shipping to my FFL . After the Canadian paper work was done , they exchanged it across the border .No telling how complicated importation is now ????????????

" Foudofoot " spent a large sum importing a 1929 dated m/96 from a French auction . It could not be imported directly into the USA from France . Had to ship to Germany before coming to the USA . Took over 2 years as best I recall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear you - my latest French import took almost 2 years - some of it due to covid but it was just a waiting game... Now - this obviously doesn't include as you said the issue with the paperwork and how the ATF are handling things currently - dont get me started..........

 

[bokila]

and the other problem here is - what do you say to the ATF that this is???? since there are no records of this even existing - I would guess it going to be imported as a AG42B

 

[Whig]

This is not legit. Someone faked this "rare" model and wants to make the big sale.

Buyer beware!