[TomBulls]

Whats your thought? Which one do you think is best? All of these cartridges (except the 7.62x51) were developed or used in overlapping time frames and were no doubt designed with the intent of remaining competitive with the others... but... Which one do you like best, and why?

I had to ask myself which cartridge has more to offer, and I've been reading through my Hornady reloading manual for the last half hour or so. With bullet weights between 150gr and 190gr, all the cartridges look evenly matched (except the 30-06) in velocity at maximum charge. The 8x57 and 7.62x51 run neck-and-neck up to 190gr bullet weight where the 8x57 seems to get a small edge on the 7.62x51. The faster top end velocity of the 30-06 (and ability to use heavier bullets) was expected, but only achieved with a much larger charge. The real shocker was the disparity between the 7.62x51 (.308 Win.) and the 7.62x54r. At 190gr bullet weight the 7.62x51 tops out at 2,400fps and the 7.62x54r tops out at 2,600fps. Really wasn't expecting that... What was really interesting to see is that only the 7.62x54r was able to come close to replicating the same velocity as a 30-06 with a 220gr bullet. I'm more than a little bit biased in favor of the 8x57, but the data just isn't there to support it as being more competitive than the others. Honestly, I expected more out of the 7.5x55, and the 8x57-- but the load data just isn't there. I like the 8x57 the most because its what I use the most and is cheaper (in the long run) for me to reload than the 7.62x54r. Brass is expensive for the 7.62x54r...

-Thomas

 

[Motor]

Thomas,
In reality the 06' in military trim (loadings) was much closer to the others of it's time. That is why replacing it with the 7.62x51 was a no brainer. It's hard to choose which is best because of potential use differences. That being said, I will go with the 7.62x51.
Motor

 

[irishsteve]

In the end I think it comes down to what type of rifle you like.If you dont like bolt rifles the 7.62x54r is out.The 7.5x55 really only has one home.The 7.62x51 comes in many different rifles,many brands,and weights for bullets,and powder.All will do the job they were designed for .

 

[AmmoSgt In Memoriam]

I load them all , I shoot them all, I like them all... don't understand the "v." part... all mine are on the same side, shoot from the same bench and can penetrate any paper target I have set up so far.. all are capable of taking deer at typical local ranges.. North Alabama shruby woods.. Accuracy varies from rifle to rifle not caliber to caliber.

 

[milprileb]

Tombulls,

Its an interesting question and one could expand it to 7.5 French and 7.65 Belgium Mauser (often called Argentine). If one considers the 7.5 Swiss was around a very long time (and 7.5 French post WWI) and it took us till 1950 era to discover 308 (7.62 Nato), it would appear the French and Swiss calibers were way ahead of their time. Completely overlooked is the 7.65 which may have been ahead of its time as well.

If one considers the major calibers used in WWI and WWII, the 30 caliber menu was exceptionally lethal and effective. I think the 3006 has the longest legs for reloading purposes and variety of bullets it can handle. That said: a man hit with a 3006, 8mm, 7.5 Fr/ or Swiss,762x54R or a 7.62 Nato is in seriously deep Kimchi.

These are all superb calibers as you know. With improvements in powders, I think we can in our lifetime expect greater efficiency from all of them and better versatility in handling different bullet weights.


In closing, at the time all these rounds were developed and used, it was customary for nations to have their "Own" caliber and this nationality thing dominated caliber selection in a world that was very much more remote and isolated as it is today. The Russians, however, are on their track using only their developed calibers while the rest of nations are just concerned with using Best choice
for calibers. The French now use 7.62 Nato and 5.56 and were probably the last of the western powers to let go of home grown calibers.

 

[cosmoline 1]

When looking through reloading manuals you have to remember that 8x57 is ridiculously downloaded.you'd probably need a Euro reloading manual for a fair 8mm comparison.

 

[Clyde]

For any purpose you care to name (military service rifle and general purpose MGs, or for that matter sniping out to around 750 meters and hunting game up to bison at ranges out to perhaps 500 meters) there is essentiallly no difference in any of the named rounds. And you can add the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, .303 British, and 7x57 to to the panel. With FMJ bullets of spitzer form and weights of c.140 to c.190 grains, the target won't notice any difference as to which one hit him. With suitable bullet selection and loaded to similar levels (And with modern guns and powders, all are OK at the same levels as 7,62x51), I doubt that there would be enough difference in performance on game to matter.

The largest capacity cases will allow a modest increase in ballistic perfromance over the smallest capacity cases, but not enough to make a real world difference of significance. Especially in a military context.

 

[RU shooter]

As far as power if loaded in a modern bolt gun its about a 3 way tie between the 7.5 swiss,30-06 and 308 with bullet weights under 180 depending on what loading manual your looking at.. the swiss(pre 284-.30) and 30-06 are have basicly the same powder capacity and the 308 can be loaded to higher pressures.The 8mm and 54R are right on their heels though ,just a hair less case cap. but since the bullet dia is bigger you cant truly make an apples to apples comparison The 54R same, lower case cap. and loaded to lower max pressures .I would live happily with any of them for my needs.But it does make good camp fire debate

 

[TomBulls]

RU- You're right about not being able to make a direct comparison- but if all cartridges are firing a similarly weighted bullet (as is entirely possible with the given cartridges...), how much of a difference is there between .308/.310/.323 diameter bullet? I'm going to guess "not much difference" except for the platform used to fire the projectile. I specifically did not include the 7.5mas because it was so severely outclassed by these other cartridges, coming out only slight ahead of the 30-40 Krag. I'm probably missing a few other .308. Even the 7.7jap (.312 dia.) seems to have some competitive ability as compared to the .308 Win. using 150gr and 174gr bullets, with the edge going to the .308 Win.

-Thomas

 

[ammolab]

With all the 'chest thumpn' about full power Military rounds the 6.5x55 gets lost in the shuffle.

But at 600yards and beyond the 6.5x55 140gr FMJBT arrives with more energy than any 30-06 military bullet. Fine rifle round, good MG round
and sweet shooting for sure.

It may get beat @ distance by Ss 7.92mm, maybe even GP11 7.5 Swiss....but you can carry more rounds and shoot more accurately with the 6.5.

 

[NY50/70]

It has been a few years since the Accelerators have been available but for awhile you could get factory loaded 30/06 with bullets from 55 grn to 220 grn. Don't know of any others that came close.
Not a big deal for a reloader though.

 

[jepari]

With all the 'chest thumpn' about full power Military rounds the 6.5x55 gets lost in the shuffle.

But at 600yards and beyond the 6.5x55 140gr FMJBT arrives with more energy than any 30-06 military bullet. Fine rifle round, good MG round
and sweet shooting for sure.

It may get beat @ distance by Ss 7.92mm, maybe even GP11 7.5 Swiss....but you can carry more rounds and shoot more accurately with the 6.5.

+1. I think the 6.5x55 is an underated military round, and often forgotten in discussions like this. The Wehrmacht had a very healthy respect for the long range accuracy of this round during the invation of Norway in 1940

 

[Leon]

+1. I think the 6.5x55 is an underated military round, and often forgotten in discussions like this. The Wehrmacht had a very healthy respect for the long range accuracy of this round during the invation of Norway in 1940

+2. Let's hope it stays that way, so those of us who appreciate this round and the fine rifles that shoot it have less competition. Getting back on topic, military rifle rounds were dual purpose: rifle and machine gun. For long range MG fire it's terminal ballistics. A heavy (relatively) slow bullet delivers the goods at extreme ranges. The Finnish D166 bullet is 200 gr and the ammunition has a MV of about 2350 FPS. Doesn't sound impressive until you are a Russian cowering in a foxhole while lethal rounds are dropping down on you.

 

[Fisch]

I shoot the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser [1915], 7.5 x 55 Swiss K-31 [1946], M-44 and 91 MN's and PSL in 7.62 x 54R [40's and new], .303 Enfield [1946] just for fun and groups. The 6.5 Mauser is easily the most accurate for me. Just sayin'...

 

[TomBulls]

+1. I think the 6.5x55 is an underated military round, and often forgotten in discussions like this. The Wehrmacht had a very healthy respect for the long range accuracy of this round during the invation of Norway in 1940

I own a 1910 M96 (6.5x55), and it is the most delightful one to shoot. I just don't take it out that much because I want it to last another 100 years.... : )

 

[Ordtech]

On the recieving end there is no difference between an approximately 150 grain bullet that leaves the bore at 2700 fps to 2800 fps and another approximately 150 grain bullet that leaves the bore at 2700 fps to 2800 fps.
Any problems in accuracy are traceable to the arm, not the cartridge.

 

[jepari]

Any problems in accuracy are traceable to the arm, not the cartridge.

Not quite sure what you meant with the above statement ...??? As I reads right now I strongly disagree though. Doesn't matter how fine tuned or accurat of a rifle 9or other gun) you have - if the ammo/cartridge is crappy you won't get the desired result at the receiving end ...

 

[Ordtech]

... if the ammo/cartridge is crappy you won't get the desired result at the receiving end ...

It isn't the cartridge's fault that a person loaded it "crappy". As for one being a ble to push a heavier bullet than another with a smaller case; that's predictable and common sense. I don't see the comparison as reasonable. If one wants to shoot 190 or 200 grain bullets, choose the case that will push them to the desired velocity. We could throw the various 300 magnums in here as well.