The Japanese made 7.92x57 ammo too….Japanese?

 

I was wondering that and have searched for Japanese made 7.92 ammo and only found the following.
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Aircraft armament also had special ammunition such as high-explosive 7.7mm ammunition for offensive aircraft machineguns used in fighters, and Japanese bombers were armed defensively with the license-built copy of the German MG15 and fired high-explosive 7.92mm (8mm Mauser) ammunition. Explosive ammunition was also found loaded into stripper clips for infantry use. Explosive ammunition is easily distinguished by its blunt tip and white or purple band. Take caution! This ammunition should be handled with extreme care.
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What other guns would the Japanese have had that would cause them to produce Mauser ammo? Is the mouth crimp consistent with other Japanese ammo during the war?

 

The only other guns using 7,9 in Japanese inventory were the Vz24 purchased in late,1930s , and the CKS T.24 Mausers and Vz26 and FN M30 BAR captured from China in 1937-45.
These later 7,9 Guns were usually employed locally in China by Puppet Troops, with captured ammo.
DocAV.

 

The only other guns using 7,9 in Japanese inventory were the Vz24 purchased in late,1930s , and the CKS T.24 Mausers and Vz26 and FN M30 BAR captured from China in 1937-45.
These later 7,9 Guns were usually employed locally in China by Puppet Troops, with captured ammo.
DocAV.

Lot's of Czech arms as well as the Chinese knockoffs. Makes perfect sense. An FN BAR in 8mm kind of blows my mind. Had no idea. Will have to do some more research.

I love this stuff. It always amazes me how firearms get made, used, sold, and shipped to other countries or captured, repurposed and put back into action by your enemy.
I'd hate to be the supply sergeant making sure the troops have dozens of different rounds available for the next day's attack.
Thanks for all the good info. Patrick.

 

Measure the case length again. Although it is 100% Japanese, it might not be a Mauser round. That primer is pretty distinctive.

 

I agree. The backend screams Japanese. The bullet measures .312 in / 7.924 mm and the case is 2.235 in / 56.769 mm.

 

 

Myself as well as most people think of the BAR as an exclusively American weapon. We forget how successful platforms are propagated to others with caliber changes or other proprietary changes. I guess the Mauser and the Mosin are the most prolific.

 

Without having it in-hand, your round looks like the scarce Japanese Navy 7.7mm round for their Type 5 'Garand-like' experimental rifle. If you have it, check out Elks, page 65.

 

I don't have and am not familiar with the Elks reference material you suggested. The bullet in question measures .312 and I believe a 7.7 would be .303? Unless there is some departure from the normal dimensions for an experimental rifle, I'm not sure how to determine that possibility.

 

If the bullet does measure to .312 I'm pretty sure you have the Navy Type 99 experimental. Congrats...not an easy round to find.
I'll try to post the pages...I doubt Ken will mind.

 

If the bullet does measure to .312 I'm pretty sure you have the Navy Type 99 experimental. Congrats...not an easy round to find.
I'll try to post the pages...I doubt Ken will mind.

As stated before, the bullet measures .312 in / 7.924 mm and the case is 2.235 in / 56.769 mm. Is that not the dimensions of a typical 7.92x57/8mm Mauser round?
I'm confused over how that would equate to an experimental 7.7 round which would be .303 x 58. I do have 4 of these. Maybe I can send you one if your sure it's something unusual.

 

If you have examples, stand your mystery round in between a 7.7x58 and a 7.92x57. You will see the difference.

 

I do not have a military 7.7 or 7.92 but I have a commercial 7.92 for comparison. The commercial bullet is 170 gr and measures a hair over .323 but as you can see has a much shorter OAL then the cartridge in question. So I guess it's a 7.7 bullet in a Mauser length case or just a short cased 7.7 Arisaka round.

 

I have one Japanese 7,9 Type 98 cartridge, found in Northern NEW Guinea. it has the Three Primer Stab Crimps similar to T38 Cartridges...probably because the T98 and T100 MGs were German Designs with a High RoF.
Imo, just measuring a bullet fixed in a case is a poor method. Usually the proper bullet diameter is inside the case Neck. Bullet diameter forward of the cannelure is usually Land Diameter or less. Groove diameter is usually the Shank behind the Cannelure.
Doc AV

 

I hate to damage one pulling a bullet. I'm not sure an inertia type hammer puller will overcome the 3 crimps. I'll have to think about this. I do have 4 of them so I guess 1 sacrificial lamb isn't the end of the world. Some careful wiggling with a vise grip and a piece of leather might do the trick? This has turned into an interesting mission.

 

I would not go to the expense of time, effort, and sacrifice to determine what is already quite sure:

 

Wow! That's dead on. The crimp, the primer and the shorter case all fits. Are these real common, if not what would be a fair value if sold. Also, if you don't have one of these in your collection send me a PM with your address and I'll send you one. Thanks for spot on documentation. Patrick.