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Fake SVT bayonets.

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Horilka

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was called out on one Canadian forum because I was "intentionally spreading lies" about SVT bayonets that I called "fakes" and common knowledge they are not. The person who called me out said I was doing it because I had beef with one importer. The only beef I had is pointing out that certain products are fakes, like fake "Polish SVT magazines" and fake SVT snipers. I usually don't care about post-war stuff, but I was call out... so here were go. Collectors deserve to know what is authentic and what is not. I was also called out on a fact that I'm the only person who claim these are fakes. Well, there's always someone who has to voice his opinion first. So why not me..

We will take a look at several items.

1. Let's start with easiest one. It is sold as "Russian SVT 40 Parade Bayonet". Quote from one of the descriptions: "These are marked for the Ishevsk Arsenal. Parade bayonet that was made for & used in the 2015 Victory Parade in Moscow. Identical to a standard SVT 40 bayonet with reddish wood grips, bright metal parts left in the white & not blued, blade edge up. No scabbard as these were mounted on the rifle for parade use. These are not chrome plated. Not in any of the reference books to our knowledge & was a very limited production run."
I hope you enjoyed the description. Here's the bayo:

Overall pic
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Markings and close up
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Now facts:
- It's a fake Izhevsk marking, never found on Izhevsk SVTs and bayonet.
- Same die used on fake SVT sniper found in Canada.
- Any factory production bayonet would have technological, QC and acceptance markings and these "parade bayonets" have none
- There are no evidences of these bayonets ever present in Russia (they are not known to local experts and collectors)
Conclusion: it's a fake posing as "parade bayonet made in Russia"

References:
Original Izhevsk marking, same used on blade
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Marking on fake SVT sniper
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2. Next item is so called "SVT bayonet Polish rework" or "Polish refurbished SVT bayonet". Descriptions say "Polish Issue SVT 40 Bayonet & Scabbard. Refurbished Soviet WWII manufacture for issue to the Polish Army for a brief period in the post WWII years. These have the Polish Eagle over "W.P." stamped into the blade. Some markings are better than others." and "Russian SVT 40 Bayonet & Scabbard made at the Tula Arsenal. Blade edge points up when mounted on the rifle. Early ball tip scabbard. Arsenal refurbished to new condition for post WWII reissue in a former East Bloc Country. We purchased these as surplus, they are not reproductions. Please don't try to tell us otherwise!"


This one is more interesting. Some pictures.
Overall pics.
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Compared with original refurbished bayonet:
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ZMPT Markings:
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Nice touch with wrapping paper, includes bayonet serial number and 1957 date.
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Here's "Izhevsk marking". Look how fresh it is on "reblued and reworked" bayo. And bingo, same die as on "parade bayo" and on fake SVT sniper. Existence of time machine is proven by me. A die that travels from 1957 Poland to 2014 Canada and then to 2015 Russia.
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Now to facts:
- fake Izhevsk die used, same as on other fakes, authentic rework would not have fake die
- even if sniper rifle, parade bayo and Polish rework were authentic then die would haven't been identical
- again, no traces of QC, technilogical markings on "reworked" bayos, but at the same time crisp "Izhevsk" markings
- fuller shape is incorrect so blade can't be reworked, only manufactured from scratch. Why then some of these blades have fake Izhevsk markings.
- Soviet bayonets were not stamped with make marking on guard.
- Paper is artificially aged. (I must tell I'm not an expert in papers so here I rely on conclusions provided to me from two experts I trust. Also if you're an expert and can tell how exactly one can tell this wrapping is aged please share your opinion)
- In several years of monitoring Polish web sites with bayonets I have never seen one like this, there are no reference as of their existence or records of sale to collectors. There are also no period pictures of communist Polish army with these bayonets.

Conclusion: this bayonet is also modern fake to imitate 1957 Polish rework/refurbishing.
Note: Apart, of the bayo above there are several versions of this bayonet with varying markings and place of marking - Tula factory, small Izhevsk marking which is more similar to original, WP markings on the blade, SVT-38 long version.

Bottom line
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#2 ·
Strange...Who would go to the trouble to make a copy of not a very expensive bayonet + stamps, etc.?
 
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#5 ·
I'd buy 'em both, in a heartbeat, if they're $29.95.(CAN) They'd go well with my Indian-Pakistani genuine Shaska, and my "replica" M39 bayonets. Besides, there's a real market for this stuff--look over on just about any surplus dealer site or fleabay at all the "new" Springfield, Enfield, M1 Carbine and Garand bayonets.
I was going to say"thank god that real M91/30 bayonets are still too cheap to copy" but, hey, not the case, plenty of those fake Chinese Shaskas come with unreal MN bayonets, for a pittance.
It's just that as usual, "caveat emptor" if one is looking for real stuff.
Next thing you know, there's gonna be airsoft Mosins and SVTs, Garands...wait.
 
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#6 ·
OP:

Excellent information. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:
 
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#9 ·
Nick said:
Strange...Who would go to the trouble to make a copy of not a very expensive bayonet + stamps, etc.?
Click to expand...
They bayonets are $200+ here in Canada, so a forger could make a decent profit if they churn them out cheap. But I'd still be surprised if there was a market large enough to make that worthwhile. We have lots of SVTs, but I'm not sure how many people would pay that much for a bayonet to go with them.
 
#11 ·
I've seen people argue they are real too. The parade bayonet is a Polish Fake and they have been around for some time.

The others I thought were Bulgarian or Estonian made fakes.

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#14 ·
pop63 said:
Question ? Do they mount on the SVT 40 correctly ,fit OK ? I would like to add one to my collection just to have it . I would not pay more than $70.00 shipped .
Click to expand...
I don't think you will find them for $70 shipped. My understanding is the importers paid $65-75 each for them and were selling them at $125-150 each.


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#18 · (Edited)
I think these are not fakes in the literal sense of the word. Most likely someone had collected the original bayonets in different places, but in very poor quality.
Perhaps these bayonets were previously kept in a museum or were found on the battlefields. These people tried to restore them and come up with a new legend for them)

It is very difficult and expensive to make such bayonets from nothing, but it is technically possible. But making a scabbard for these bayonets is an extremely difficult task.

Here is a link to one online store that sells such fakes. Read what beautiful legends the sellers have invented for them)))

Russian SVT40 Parade Bayonet, Scabbard & Frog Russian SVT40 Parade Bayonet, Scabbard & Frog: Shop Military Goods in Calgary at Things Military Ltd.
Polish SVT 40 Bayonet & Scabbard, (ZMPT) Polish SVT 40 Bayonet & Scabbard, (ZMPT): Shop Military Goods in Calgary at Things Military Ltd.
Polish SVT 38 Bayonet & Scabbard Polish SVT 38 Bayonet & Scabbard: Shop Military Goods in Calgary at Things Military Ltd.
Russian SVT40 Parade Bayonet Russian SVT40 Parade Bayonet: Shop Military Goods in Calgary at Things Military Ltd.


POLISH MADE/REFURBISHED SVT40 TOKAREV BAYO & SCABBARD Polish Made/Refurbished SVT40 Tokarev Bayo & Scabbard | #1934191134

At first I thought that if the price is a little $ 30-40, then it could be a souvenir. But the prices there are much higher, and you don't have to pay so much for a fake, even if it is very beautiful and of high quality.
I live in Russia, our average salary in the city is about $ 300 per month, after taxes. I do not know in which country these fakes need to be made so that they pay off (bring profit).
In China, India ... Pakistan ...

UPD:

I remembered an interesting case.
A year and a half ago, at one of the weapon forums, 5 copies of SVT bayonets were sold. The seller honestly stated that these were copies, and that he made them himself, that they were souvenirs. He sold them for $ 50 a piece.
3768064
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And three months ago, at one of the Russian auctions, one of these bayonets was put up for sale as the original. Priced at $ 225.

3768067


But here the scabbard is of a different type, it is easier to forge them.
 
#19 ·
Now I am really worried.
I bought 3 bayonets for my SVTs a few years ago from online seller.
Even back then they were cheap (about $100 a piece).
I was surprised by the price, but they looked great and real.
Did I get a fakes?

I need to make pictures and post them.
It could get very upsetting, but I need to make sure...
 
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Horilka
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