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Copied from the old forums. Strangely, this info was posted on the old forum from the forum that preceeded it! :)

SlimTim

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Q: WZ48 bolt disassembly (again),

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Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27285
Printed on: 10/08/2007

Topic:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Topic author: Dennis
Subject: Q: WZ48 bolt disassembly (again),
Posted on: 02/14/2004 12:21:26 AM
Message:


Regarding the WZ48 .22 trainer that is similar to a Model 38 M-N: There have been some firing pin striking problems with these and a long time ago someone posted a note about taking the bolt apart. As I recall, it could be tough to break loose. Anyone have info on this? I have a problem with one and suspect it can be repaired if the bolt can be taken apart. Thanks, Dennis

Replies:



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Reply author: Crazy Ivan
Replied on: 02/14/2004 03:34:02 AM
Message:

Well, this will be a long one. This is a copy of a post from the old board on this. Hopefully it will help:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 2001 1. M48 misfires


Gentlemen,
I recently bought a Wz-48, 1955. I took it to an indoor range today, 15 yard maximum range.

The groups were all right, I think, most within a two inch radius, with an occasional flyer. My eyes are not what they once were and I think the rifle is much better and more accurate than what I shot.

However, I had numerous misfires, 3 or 4 out of every 10 shots. The rifle always fired on the second attempt.


I asked the on-location gunsmith about this. I do not think he is experienced with this rifle as he seemed a bit unsure of himself. He did lock the bolt in place and then pushed the bolt forward. The bolt moved 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. This is just an estimate on my part, but you get the idea, it moved. He said the spring on the pressure pin may be weak, thus it is not holding the bolt solidly in place against the bullet for the firing pin to strike the rim effectively every shot. It seems to make sense.

So, has anyone had this number of misfires with their M48? If so, what was the cause and how did you fix it? If the spring on the pressure pin is at fault, where would I get a replacement, and how would the old pin be removed and the new one inserted?

I am open to any and every suggestion.

Another question: as my eyes are diabetic and 52 years old, is there any way to mount a scope (and which one) without altering the integrity and aesthetics of the rifle, i.e. no drilling or tapping?

Regards,
Arney

Date: Jun 18, 2002 on 09:55 p.m.

Colorado Pete
2. Re:M48 misfires


The indication that your rifle fires on the second attempt does indicate that the firing pin spring may be weak. However, your other symptom--that the bolt moves--is the more serious concern. Your bolt should not move at all when locked in position. I think that's the primary cause of the misfiring, and probably correctly diagnoses by the person who looked at it. If the bolt moves your bullet is not seated snugly in the chamber and your headspace will be incorrect. I guess you really need a professional to assess and correct the bolt problem before you change the firing pin spring.
As for a scope... since the rifel is a Mosin-Nagant copy, how about getting a Russian PU-4x sniper scope?
I always thought that making a "pseudo-sniper" training rifle from a Wz-48 would be very nice! However, it may involve some drilling and tapping.

Pete

Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:44 a.m.

Colorado Pete
3. Correction and question...


I re-read your posting... I presume the gunsmith at the range pushing on the back of the "cocking piece"--and it was NOT the bolt body which moved.
I don't own a Wz-48 so I'm not sure if the cocking piece and be adjusted in any way to remove the slack.

Is the bolt identical to the full size M-N?

Pete

Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:52 a.m.

Colorado Pete
4. Re:M48 misfires


The indication that your rifle fires on the second attempt does indicate that the firing pin spring may be weak. However, your other symptom--that the bolt moves--is the more serious concern. Your bolt should not move at all when locked in position. I think that's the primary cause of the misfiring, and probably correctly diagnoses by the person who looked at it. If the bolt moves your bullet is not seated snugly in the chamber and your headspace will be incorrect. I guess you really need a professional to assess and correct the bolt problem before you change the firing pin spring.
As for a scope... since the rifel is a Mosin-Nagant copy, how about getting a Russian PU-4x sniper scope?
I always thought that making a "pseudo-sniper" training rifle from a Wz-48 would be very nice! However, it may involve some drilling and tapping.

Pete

Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:53 a.m.

Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 2001 5. Re:M48 misfires


Pete,
What the gunsmith did was close the bolt. With the bolt in the closed position, he pushed the cocking arm towards the breech and the entire bolt body moved foward. On my other rifles, when the bolt is in the closed position and the cocking arm is pushed forward the bolt body does not move at all.

I have a Finn M-N 91/30 and the bolt does not look like the M48 bolt.

So, there it is, guys. What can I do?

And Pete, the idea of using a PU 4X Russian scope is an intriguing idea. Does anyone have any idea what a Russian PU-4X sniper scope costs?

Regards,
Arney

Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 10:23 a.m.

Gunruner
Premium member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 449
since: Jul 20, 2001 6. Re:M48 misfires


Hi guys, I just received a Wz48 yesterday and I tried to make the bolt body move while cocked and while uncocked. Mine will not move and there isn't any slack to allow for movement. I would assume your bolt is allowing too much headspace. Does the bolt number match the barrel number? The bolt is certainly over engineered just like the receiver so I don't think any amount of firing mistreatment could cause the headspace problem. I'll bet finding a gunsmith that can work knowledgeable with this rifle will be a challenge. Good luck...........Mike
Date: Jun 22, 2002 on 10:35 a.m.

Bob Kneip
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 91
since: Sep 27, 2001 7. Re:M48 misfires


Since nobody has replied with the obvious, I will jump in. Pull the bolt on your rifle. Then grasp the bolt handle and pull back on the cocking piece. See the slotted jam nut now exposed??? Be sure that it is fully screwed in. If it is not, you will not get a full firing pin extension when the cocking piece comes forward.
You can also decock the bolt while you have it out and then measure the firing pin extension. Mine comes up almost flush with the bolt face and is solidly held forward. As the jam nut is loosened, the firing pin will fall further and further back. If you unscrew the jam nut, it all comes apart and it is very easy to see how everything works. The actual firing pin is held in by the small screw in the side of the bolt at the front. If you take it all down, you should be able to determine exactly what is not working correctly.
HTH,
Bob Kneip

Date: Jun 22, 2002 on 02:43 p.m.

Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 2001 8. Re:M48 misfires


Bob,
Pulling the bolt, holding it, pulling back on the safety arm exposes the slotted jam nut with the firing pin running through it. How can you tell if it is fully screwed in? If it were not, the bolt would have to be taken apart in order to do so. How would one accomplish this task?

Arney

Date: Jun 25, 2002 on 01:48 p.m.

Bob Kneip
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 91
since: Sep 27, 2001 9. Re:M48 misfires


What I do is expose the slot and stick a large blade screwdriver into it sideways and turn. Once you start to back off the screw, the spring tension lessens rapidly. Once it is all the way off there is almost no spring tension left, so flyaway parts are not an issue with care. The only thing left to disassemble is to remove the firing pin. Do this by removing the small screw in the side of the bolt. The firing pin should then push out in either direction. Clean everything well. I have two of these guns and both were full of junk down around the firing pin.
This is NOT a difficult job. My firing pin was worn and I actually made a new one out of drill rod. Looking at these guns they appear to have been extensively dry-fired; at least mine did. This caused wear on the firing pins and also the edge of the chamber where it strikes.

HTH,
Bob

Date: Jun 29, 2002 on 01:04 p.m.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Dennis
Replied on: 02/14/2004 12:11:17 PM
Message:

Thanks, Nick.

What's new?

Dennis



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Same subject, from another post.

SlimTim

==========================================================

wz48 firing pin; HELP!

Printed from: Gunboards
Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23339
Printed on: 10/08/2007

Topic:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Topic author: finnished
Subject: wz48 firing pin; HELP!
Posted on: 01/23/2004 08:18:55 AM
Message:


Picked up a beautiful'54;but she won't fire. Tried another round, but nothing. Disassembled bolt by turning retaining ring out and removed set screw. I did not find a firing pin or any thing that would make contact w/ rim. Only found a spring wrapped around what I thought was the firing pin. Am I missing something here? Any help you can give will appreciated. thx-j

Replies:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: hrkneip
Replied on: 01/26/2004 4:13:44 PM
Message:

Sounds to me like you are missing your firing pin. Here is a pic of a replacement I made for my Polish .22



Download Attachment:
24.88 KB


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Reply author: finnished
Replied on: 01/26/2004 4:55:35 PM
Message:

Thx for the reply! I think you are correct;what did you use to make your replacement firing pin? Any manufacturing tips? thx again-j


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: hrkneip
Replied on: 01/27/2004 10:13:33 AM
Message:

Finnished:
Are you ready for a nice cold-day project???
I made my firing pin from .134 dia. oil-quench drill rod ordered from McMaster-Carr. It comes in 3 foot pieces so I have plenty left. E-mail me your address and I will send you a chunk if you want to try this.
Started by shaping the tip. File 45 deg angle from both side until width you want firing pin to be is left. Then file another 45 degree at 90 degrees to remove 1/2 the striking surface. The pictures should help here. file a .175 notch half way through .215 from the striking tip and on the opposite side. I ended up with an overall length of .595, but I cut it long and then ground off the back side to get the firing pin protrusion I wanted. When you cut it off the stock (a little long), don't cut all the way through the rod. You will need a handle for the tempering process. I tempered mine with a propane torch. Heat to cherry red and quench in oil. Then reheat slowly to blue color (polish it first so you can see the blue) and let air cool. Now you can snap off the tempered piece and start grinding off the back side to fit. With the set screw in, the notch should allow the firing pin to slip back and forth from flush to the botl face to the desired protrusion. I fitted mine by firing it against empty .22 cases and observing the marks made. Started out by crushing the case, and as I ground it down, it backed out until I had a nice sharp indentation. If you go too far, you can start all over .



Download Attachment:
27.65 KB



Download Attachment:
16.05 KB



Download Attachment:
17.78 KB



Download Attachment:
15.55 KB


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Reply author: finnished
Replied on: 03/04/2004 08:52:20 AM
Message:

Made firing pin as per your instrunctions; works great! Shoots through the same hole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thx-j


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Reply author: hrkneip
Replied on: 03/16/2004 11:43:12 AM
Message:

Finnished:

AMAZING !!! After about 4 years of gathering info from these boards, I was actually able to help someone else!

Bob Kneip


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Reply author: lavric
Replied on: 03/20/2004 12:44:58 AM
Message:

3 gunsmiths were trying to make firing pin for my .22 Cal. Nagant revolver.
They could not make it!!!




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Joined
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Same Topic, some of the same info, but it bears repeating. :)

SlimTim
==========================================================

22 Rim Fire Mosin Nagant rifle problem

Printed from: Gunboards
Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46846
Printed on: 10/08/2007

Topic:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Topic author: scott hannah
Subject: 22 Rim Fire Mosin Nagant rifle problem
Posted on: 06/06/2004 6:33:20 PM
Message:


Hi:
I bought on of these rifle a few months ago and cleaned it up and went to shoot it with eye procetion on and felt blow back gas from the top of the action and I looked down at the action a saw a gap between the bolt and the action is this "normal"? I have shot remington and some russian 22 ammo and have been hit in the face with
a little hot gas.Could a gun smith fix this problem? or am I SOL?



Thanks
Scott Hannah

Replies:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Crazy Ivan
Replied on: 06/06/2004 9:08:29 PM
Message:

Is this the Polish 22 single shot?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: scott hannah
Replied on: 06/07/2004 9:20:46 PM
Message:

Hi:
Crazy Ivan yes it is.








Thanks
Scott Hannah


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Crazy Ivan
Replied on: 06/08/2004 01:24:15 AM
Message:

I am not clear on what you mean by "a gap between the bolt and the action" Scott, so I can't help you there.

The Polish .22's have an adjustable firing pin. It may be that your pin is out too far and is piercing the primers. Mine is adjusted a little too far out and it pierces the primers on Peters .22 ammo with regularity, giving me a puff of gas in the face too. It is fine with everything else (this is just another reminder that we ALWAYS need to wear eye protection while shooting).

Regrettably I am not sure right now where my info on how to adjust the firing pin is. Can anyone else give him this info?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: hrkneip
Replied on: 06/08/2004 11:04:31 AM
Message:

Scott:

As far as I know, the firing pin is not adjustable (except with a dremel tool).

Bob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: hrkneip
Replied on: 06/08/2004 11:14:11 AM
Message:

Scott:

For reference, look at this post...

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23339

Bob


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Crazy Ivan
Replied on: 06/08/2004 10:45:12 PM
Message:

Bob, an impressive job in making the firing pin. I save that posting back when you posted it before for reference!

Perhaps I didn't use the right word in describing it, but it seems it can be "out of adjustment" so maybe he can play with it a bit to get it working. Below is a posting from the old board describing someone's tribulations with a Polish .22 that didn't have enough thump with the pin. Sorry for the hard to read nature of it but it is the only way I know to get it transferred over:




Index / Richard's Lee Enfield & 22 Caliber Forums / The 22 Caliber
Military Trainer Forum
authormessage
M48 misfires (read 143 times)


Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 20011. M48 misfires


Gentlemen,
I recently bought a Wz-48, 1955. I took it to an indoor range
today, 15 yard maximum range.
The groups were all right, I think, most within a two inch
radius, with an occasional flyer. My eyes are not what they
once were and I think the rifle is much better and more
accurate than what I shot.
However, I had numerous misfires, 3 or 4 out of every 10
shots. The rifle always fired on the second attempt.

I asked the on-location gunsmith about this. I do not think he
is experienced with this rifle as he seemed a bit unsure of
himself. He did lock the bolt in place and then pushed the
bolt forward. The bolt moved 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. This
is just an estimate on my part, but you get the idea, it
moved. He said the spring on the pressure pin may be weak,
thus it is not holding the bolt solidly in place against the
bullet for the firing pin to strike the rim effectively every
shot. It seems to make sense.
So, has anyone had this number of misfires with their M48? If
so, what was the cause and how did you fix it? If the spring
on the pressure pin is at fault, where would I get a
replacement, and how would the old pin be removed and the new
one inserted?
I am open to any and every suggestion.
Another question: as my eyes are diabetic and 52 years old, is
there any way to mount a scope (and which one) without
altering the integrity and aesthetics of the rifle, i.e. no
drilling or tapping?
Regards,
Arney
Date: Jun 18, 2002 on 09:55 p.m.

Colorado Pete
2. Re:M48 misfires


The indication that your rifle fires on the second attempt
does indicate that the firing pin spring may be weak. However,
your other symptom--that the bolt moves--is the more serious
concern. Your bolt should not move at all when locked in
position. I think that's the primary cause of the misfiring,
and probably correctly diagnoses by the person who looked at
it. If the bolt moves your bullet is not seated snugly in the
chamber and your headspace will be incorrect. I guess you
really need a professional to assess and correct the bolt
problem before you change the firing pin spring.
As for a scope... since the rifel is a Mosin-Nagant copy, how
about getting a Russian PU-4x sniper scope?
I always thought that making a "pseudo-sniper" training rifle
from a Wz-48 would be very nice! However, it may involve some
drilling and tapping.
Pete
Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:44 a.m.

Colorado Pete
3. Correction and question...


I re-read your posting... I presume the gunsmith at the range
pushing on the back of the "cocking piece"--and it was NOT the
bolt body which moved.
I don't own a Wz-48 so I'm not sure if the cocking piece and
be adjusted in any way to remove the slack.
Is the bolt identical to the full size M-N?
Pete
Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:52 a.m.

Colorado Pete
4. Re:M48 misfires


The indication that your rifle fires on the second attempt
does indicate that the firing pin spring may be weak. However,
your other symptom--that the bolt moves--is the more serious
concern. Your bolt should not move at all when locked in
position. I think that's the primary cause of the misfiring,
and probably correctly diagnoses by the person who looked at
it. If the bolt moves your bullet is not seated snugly in the
chamber and your headspace will be incorrect. I guess you
really need a professional to assess and correct the bolt
problem before you change the firing pin spring.
As for a scope... since the rifel is a Mosin-Nagant copy, how
about getting a Russian PU-4x sniper scope?
I always thought that making a "pseudo-sniper" training rifle
from a Wz-48 would be very nice! However, it may involve some
drilling and tapping.
Pete
Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 09:53 a.m.

Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 20015. Re:M48 misfires


Pete,
What the gunsmith did was close the bolt. With the bolt in the
closed position, he pushed the cocking arm towards the breech
and the entire bolt body moved foward. On my other rifles,
when the bolt is in the closed position and the cocking arm is
pushed forward the bolt body does not move at all.
I have a Finn M-N 91/30 and the bolt does not look like the
M48 bolt.
So, there it is, guys. What can I do?
And Pete, the idea of using a PU 4X Russian scope is an
intriguing idea. Does anyone have any idea what a Russian
PU-4X sniper scope costs?
Regards,
Arney
Date: Jun 19, 2002 on 10:23 a.m.

Gunruner
Premium member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 449
since: Jul 20, 20016. Re:M48 misfires


Hi guys, I just received a Wz48 yesterday and I tried to make
the bolt body move while cocked and while uncocked. Mine will
not move and there isn't any slack to allow for movement. I
would assume your bolt is allowing too much headspace. Does
the bolt number match the barrel number? The bolt is certainly
over engineered just like the receiver so I don't think any
amount of firing mistreatment could cause the headspace
problem. I'll bet finding a gunsmith that can work
knowledgeable with this rifle will be a challenge. Good
luck...........Mike
Date: Jun 22, 2002 on 10:35 a.m.

Bob Kneip
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 91
since: Sep 27, 20017. Re:M48 misfires


Since nobody has replied with the obvious, I will jump in.
Pull the bolt on your rifle. Then grasp the bolt handle and
pull back on the cocking piece. See the slotted jam nut now
exposed??? Be sure that it is fully screwed in. If it is not,
you will not get a full firing pin extension when the cocking
piece comes forward.
You can also decock the bolt while you have it out and then
measure the firing pin extension. Mine comes up almost flush
with the bolt face and is solidly held forward. As the jam nut
is loosened, the firing pin will fall further and further
back. If you unscrew the jam nut, it all comes apart and it is
very easy to see how everything works. The actual firing pin
is held in by the small screw in the side of the bolt at the
front. If you take it all down, you should be able to
determine exactly what is not working correctly.
HTH,
Bob Kneip
Date: Jun 22, 2002 on 02:43 p.m.

Pur Sang
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 303
since: Dec 29, 20018. Re:M48 misfires


Bob,
Pulling the bolt, holding it, pulling back on the safety arm
exposes the slotted jam nut with the firing pin running
through it. How can you tell if it is fully screwed in? If it
were not, the bolt would have to be taken apart in order to do
so. How would one accomplish this task?
Arney
Date: Jun 25, 2002 on 01:48 p.m.

Bob Kneip
Normal member
in Gunboards.Com Members

posts: 91
since: Sep 27, 20019. Re:M48 misfires


What I do is expose the slot and stick a large blade
screwdriver into it sideways and turn. Once you start to back
off the screw, the spring tension lessens rapidly. Once it is
all the way off there is almost no spring tension left, so
flyaway parts are not an issue with care. The only thing left
to disassemble is to remove the firing pin. Do this by
removing the small screw in the side of the bolt. The firing
pin should then push out in either direction. Clean everything
well. I have two of these guns and both were full of junk down
around the firing pin.
This is NOT a difficult job. My firing pin was worn and I
actually made a new one out of drill rod. Looking at these
guns they appear to have been extensively dry-fired; at least
mine did. This caused wear on the firing pins and also the
edge of the chamber where it strikes.
HTH,
Bob
Date: Jun 29, 2002 on 01:04 p.m.

M48 misfires


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: John Sukey
Replied on: 06/10/2004 6:24:24 PM
Message:

the only problem I had with mine was that it was in a floor rack at the gun store. You know the drill, open bolt, close bolt, pull trigger. Every idiot will do it. The rear of the chamber was peened enough that I could'nt chamber a round. they fixed it for nothing.



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