[shoedo]

Are there any Enfield afcionados who can direct me to a place of reference to research the use of threaded barrels on the No 4 sniper rifle. Did the Brits use flash suppressors or even silencers on this rifle at any time during its use? Thanks in advance!

 

[ditch68]

I was wondering the same thing, though the only example I have seen was recently on a rifle for sale, which doesn't mean much.

Jeff

 

[Ross280]

If you trip on over the jouster.com Enfield forum you can ask Peter Laidler. IIRC he recently said there that there was no use of silencers that he was aware of, on the No4(T).

There are anecdotes suggesting the British used them in WWI on occasion, but I have never read anything suggesting on what rifles.

Gen. Currie, commander of the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI, is quoted in one of the books requesting the purchase of silenced .22 Winchesters for use in sniping. Similar to what was of course used by the "British Resistance Movement" in WWII, perhaps by SOE as well, I don't know.

 

[GunnerSam]

If you trip on over the jouster.com Enfield forum you can ask Peter Laidler. IIRC he recently said there that there was no use of silencers that he was aware of, on the No4(T).

There are anecdotes suggesting the British used them in WWI on occasion, but I have never read anything suggesting on what rifles.

Gen. Currie, commander of the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI, is quoted in one of the books requesting the purchase of silenced .22 Winchesters for use in sniping. Similar to what was of course used by the "British Resistance Movement" in WWII, perhaps by SOE as well, I don't know.

If you wanted to mount a Suppressor you'd only have to design one that locked onto the bayonet lugs.

They were never able to design an efficient flash suppressor for any weapon that used the Mk VII cartridge so a silencer wouldn't have been easy to design either.

The DeLise carbine seemed to fill the need quiet well using the .45 ACP cartridge.

 

[GunnerSam]

If you trip on over the jouster.com Enfield forum you can ask Peter Laidler. IIRC he recently said there that there was no use of silencers that he was aware of, on the No4(T).

There are anecdotes suggesting the British used them in WWI on occasion, but I have never read anything suggesting on what rifles.

Gen. Currie, commander of the Canadian Expeditionary Force in WWI, is quoted in "Without Warning", as requesting the purchase of silenced .22 Winchesters for use in sniping. Similar to what was of course used by the "British Resistance Movement" in WWII, perhaps by SOE as well, I don't know.

I was suprized to learn that at one time France had laws that anyone who owned a .22 rifle or pistol within city limits had to buy a silencer for it.
Don't know the exact time period but this was mentioned in the information accompanying a presentation grade Colt Woodsman pistol made for a Company big wig in Paris, that pistol had extensive engraving with Gold inlays and the silencer in the same fitted case was also engraved and inlaid. Nice staghorn grips too.
A local store had a Winchester pump action .22 with threaded barrel and a thread protector in place. By the time I'd tracked down information on this model it had been sold.
These were ordered from the factory with matching silencer. The ads say to kill foxes in the hen house without disturbing egg production.

Funny thing I found out in my younger days is that if you fire a pistol with silencer within twenty feet of a half empty Kerosene fuel tank the sound of the muzzle report which you would not otherwise hear can be reflected back at an audible frequency.
You can't eliminate all the sound waves just the audible frequencies. Dogs can hear stuff we can't.

Remember Uncle Sugar frowns on experimenting with suppressors so look into the laws before messing with them.
Not sure but I think there are places in the UK were Silencers are legal if you have a good reason to use one, horse breeders use silenced shotguns to eliminate pest without spooking the herd.

I'd like to see an effective moderator, I'm not interested in silenced shots just moderating the report to avoid hearing damage. I enjoy my music too much to go shooting without both ear plugs and hearing protectors, but I don't like not being able to hear whats going on around me.

I may still have an old set of Sionics earplugs that were suposed to filter out damaging vibrations while allowing you the hear normally. They don't work well enough though.
Theres a Wolf Ears head set that does this electronically.

PS
The OSS had a commercial Mauser 9mm Express pistol that had both a fitted barrel extension and silencer that could be used eith as a pistol or as a rifle.
The barrel extension used tapered threads and each was indexed so the lands matched up.

 

[Lithy]

A silenced shotgun? That's a new one for me

Silencers are a prohibited item in my neck of the woods, so therefore my knowledge is extremely limited, but I would have thought that the baffles woud do considerable damage to the shot patterns

I have seen muzzles threaded to take a sleeve to accomodate tunnel foresights designed for modern barrels though. Perhaps this is the case?

 

[GunnerSam]

A silenced shotgun? That's a new one for me

Silencers are a prohibited item in my neck of the woods, so therefore my knowledge is extremely limited, but I would have thought that the baffles woud do considerable damage to the shot patterns

Suprized me too but I've seen the guns listed with explanation of how it works.
Those are the only ones I've seen that use shot loads.

There are no baffles as you'd use with a solid projectile.
The gases are bled off and slowed before the charge leaves the muzzle.
The jacket extends all the way to the breech.

The gauges used are generally small and charges are light with low velocity. Good for pest control but little else.

PS
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/shotguns/144533/Mossberg_410_shotgun_review.html
Looks like Mossberg Pump Shotguns in .410 are available in the UK with a built on silencer.

 

[Thunderbox]

Silencers are legal to use in UK. You can own an integrated silencer without any "extra" certification - e.g. you can own a DeLisle replica on a normal firearms certificate - but detachable silencers not only have to be listed as a separate licensable part, but they are also subject to proof testing as if they were a barrel in their own right.

There is no record of any military No4 accessory requiring a threaded barrel - most likely Mr Bubba decided to use an after market flash suppressor...

 

[Beerhunter]

Silencers are legal to use in UK. You can own an integrated silencer without any "extra" certification - e.g. you can own a DeLisle replica on a normal firearms certificate - but detachable silencers not only have to be listed as a separate licensable part, but they are also subject to proof testing as if they were a barrel in their own right.

But an identical silencer for use on a non-Section One Air Rifle does not need an FAC entry.

 

[GunnerSam]

But an identical silencer for use on a non-Section One Air Rifle does not need an FAC entry.

If I'm not mistaken air rifle silencers must be made of a material not strong enough to withstand the pressures of a .22 rimfire muzzle blast, which is mighty weak. The ones I've seen advertised were of a synthetic rather than metal.

There are plastic silencers that can withstand even the blast of an M14, these were designed as throways for use in ambush. They only lasted a few rounds, even with specially downloaded ammunition fired from a .308 bolt action rifle. The prototype used stacked tennis balls inside a thick plastic tube.
It wasn't adopted but the tests were at least interesting.
A molded Nylon silencer for .22 rifles was available at one time. The baffles were molded along with the casing in one piece. I've noticed that some plastic drums will seal behind the passage of a .22 leaving a thin streamer of drawn material sticking out, that would make a usable end wipe.

I don't think I should say more as we don't want to encourage experimentation.

 

[Thunderbox]

But an identical silencer for use on a non-Section One Air Rifle does not need an FAC entry.

True.

I don't use them myself, but an RFD friend who is distributor for one brand of silencer is tearing his hair out (or going through the motions, due to lack of hair...) because each of the various models in the range is designed to be used on a range of calibres - e.g. .17HMR up to 22-250, .250 to .310, or similar. Naturally, shooters are keen to buy one silencer that can be switched between several of their rifles. Apparently, however, the Police/ Proof house have decided that a separate proof is required for each calibre for which that particular silencer is used! Nice business for the proof house - five or six fees for a piece of pipe that isn't even a "pressure-bearing component"...

 

[shoedo]

Thread Barrels on British Sniper Rifles

Thank you very much for your responses.

 

[Beerhunter]

If I'm not mistaken air rifle silencers must be made of a material not strong enough to withstand the pressures of a .22 rimfire muzzle blast, which is mighty weak. The ones I've seen advertised were of a synthetic rather than metal.

You are mistaken. UK Law makes no differentiation based on what a silencer is made of. Context is all.

 

[Son]

A silenced shotgun? That's a new one for me

Silencers are a prohibited item in my neck of the woods, so therefore my knowledge is extremely limited, but I would have thought that the baffles woud do considerable damage to the shot patterns

I have seen muzzles threaded to take a sleeve to accomodate tunnel foresights designed for modern barrels though. Perhaps this is the case?

I've also seen a muzzle design threaded for a fitting with an adjustable weight for fine tuning barrel harmonics, plus a threaded extension added to a barrel to protect a custom crown job. The barrels of some swede mausers were threaded to take a blank firing attachment. It actually had a blade in it for splintering the softwood projectiles they used to help simulate recoil with their blanks. There's a lot of possibilities- a silencer wasn't one of them. I'm with Thunderbox on this one- bubba's flash supressor or even a wimp protector (muzzle brake) It'd make that "old pommy army gun" look like a proper tactical rifle!

As far as hearing protection goes- buy a set of Peltor electronic muffs. You can stand beside a Mag58 in full song and hear a conversation 50 yards away between bursts.

 

[Thunderbox]

Theres a "moderated" Mossberg .410 on retail sale in UK under the trade name "hushpower"; apparently its quite good:

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/shotguns/144533/Mossberg_410_shotgun_review.html

I fairly sure there are some 12G versions around but, again, they are termed "moderators" rather than "silencers".

 

[GunnerSam]

You are mistaken. UK Law makes no differentiation based on what a silencer is made of. Context is all.

Must be here in the US then. If I remember correctly theres a silencer for several types of PCP airguns that are made of synthetics and wound fiber.

Here the deal

So, there is NO WAY to quiet a PCP airgun?
Yes, there is. Several years ago, AirForce Airguns designed the Talon SS. The frame of the SS sticks out past the muzzle of the barrel and forms a chamber to enclose the muzzle. A special end cap closes this chamber and strips off a lot of the muzzle blast from that rifle. As a result, the Talon SS is a great deal quieter than a PCP of similar power and barrel length.

This design is now widely called the shrouded barrel, and other airgun manufacturers have begun to offer some rifles that also have it. The Logun S-16 FAC is one such rifle. So look for guns that include a shrouded barrel to find quieter air rifles.

Has to be a permanent part of the gun.

 

[ray49]

In New Zealand silencers are perfectly legal and are often used by people for pest control which is done over a spot light
A lot of good collectable rifles are spoiled by being threaded

I don't think military rifles were silenced other than the DeLise of course and the .22 Winchesters........bid on one of these recently which seemed to be marked correctly but missed out
If you are interested in new silencers google Robbie Tiffen NZ and see what is availabe here

 

[Jaymor7]

Threaded Barrels

I just picked up an Enfield No. 5 that had the flashider removed and the barrel threaded for a recoil reducer. My guess is that these are post war modifications for recoil reducers. I was able to put on a flash hider and the threading is not visible.

 

[mikew]

I used to own a Lee-Enfield No4Mk1 sniper that had the barrel muzzle threaded. When I bought it, a previous owner had installed a Herter's muzzlebrake, which required threading about 1/2" or so of the muzzle. I assumed that was done for the brake. He had also removed the buttplate and installed one of those thick black rubber slip-on buttpads (with the U.S. flaming bomb on it, I think they were used for grenade launching?). Guess he was trying to tame the awesome recoil of the .303 in a 9+ pound rifle....

 

[Son]

I used to own a Lee-Enfield No4Mk1 sniper that had the barrel muzzle threaded. When I bought it, a previous owner had installed a Herter's muzzlebrake, which required threading about 1/2" or so of the muzzle. I assumed that was done for the brake. He had also removed the buttplate and installed one of those thick black rubber slip-on buttpads (with the U.S. flaming bomb on it, I think they were used for grenade launching?). Guess he was trying to tame the awesome recoil of the .303 in a 9+ pound rifle....

Hmmm, What's the bet there was a gunshop at some stage promoting the modification for the "new on the market, surplus British sniper rifles".