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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not a warship per se, but 500+ years ago there were few specialized sailing warships. The Santa Maria was a medium size nau, or carrack, built as a merchant vessel, of slightly over 100 tons, perhaps 60 feet long on deck. She was lost at Cap Hatien on the first voyage of Columbus, on the night of December 25, 1492, when the crew fell asleep and a cabin boy steered the ship ashore. The painting is overly dramatic.



Exclusive: Found after 500 years, the wreck of Christopher Columbus’s flagship the Santa Maria

Shipwreck found off coast of Haiti thought to be one of the most significant underwater discoveries in history

David Keys
Tuesday, 13 May 2014
The Independent (UK)


More than five centuries after Christopher Columbus’s flagship, the Santa Maria, was wrecked in the Caribbean, archaeological investigators think they may have discovered the vessel’s long-lost remains – lying at the bottom of the sea off the north coast of Haiti. It’s likely to be one of the world’s most important underwater archaeological discoveries.

“All the geographical, underwater topography and archaeological evidence strongly suggests that this wreck is Columbus’ famous flagship, the Santa Maria,” said the leader of a recent reconnaissance expedition to the site, one of America’s top underwater archaeological investigators, Barry Clifford.

“The Haitian government has been extremely helpful – and we now need to continue working with them to carry out a detailed archaeological excavation of the wreck,” he said.

So far, Mr Clifford’s team has carried out purely non-invasive survey work at the site – measuring and photographing it.

Tentatively identifying the wreck as the Santa Maria has been made possible by quite separate discoveries made by other archaeologists in 2003 suggesting the probable location of Columbus’ fort relatively nearby. Armed with this new information about the location of the fort, Clifford was able to use data in Christopher Columbus’ diary to work out where the wreck should be.

In pictures: Amazing archaeological discoveries

An expedition, mounted by his team a decade ago, had already found and photographed the wreck – but had not, at that stage, realized its probable identity.

It’s a current re-examination of underwater photographs from that initial survey (carried out back in 2003), combined with data from recent reconnaissance dives on the site (carried out by Clifford’s team earlier this month), that have allowed Clifford to tentatively identify the wreck as that of the Santa Maria.

The evidence so far is substantial. It is the right location in terms of how Christopher Columbus, writing in his diary, described the wreck in relation to his fort.

More at: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...umbuss-flagship-the-santa-maria-9359330.html#
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thankee.

Some more news is that there has been some scavenging of the wreck since the initial discovery. A cannon that used to be there is now missing.

And some marine archeologists who have no direct information on the site are dubious. (or jealous - academics' claws come out pretty fast)

I just hope that some of the fanatics are ignored by the Haitians and the wreck is completely recovered and studied. The "leave the precious historical wreck alone" characters just don't seem to realize what salt water and sea life will do to a wreck. The gun collecting equivalent would be "the wood rot and active rust are valuable evidence of the gun's history."
 

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It was in todays WSJ. They found the wreck in 2003 but were skeptical that it was the Santa Maria. However, the location matches exactly, the place described by Columbus, as to where it was wrecked. Unfortunately, since 2003 , the monkeys have gone out and looted the site and lots of stuff, including the cannon, are gone . They did take extensive pictures, and that's what they will have to go on. Hey It's Haiti , a country so poor ,anything is worth something. The cannon was probably sold for scrap.
Not in your local newspaper ?? It's not news to the nitwit population we have allowed to foster.According to revisionist history, Columbus was a colonial exploiter, who subjugated indigenous happy people. They forget about their lifestyle that they have today, because of Columbus ,even the indigenous peoples.Your headlines are probably about Sam, the gay football player that is so brave, in coming out. I just get so Puked Out watching politicions, news people, and almost anyone else who can, trot out some prop person and fawn all over them for doing nothing very important or rewarding. Show me an incident, and I'll show you a real exploiter, aka Al Charlaton,Jesse Jackass, The Brady bunch and our own POTUS," If I had a son ......." . Puke, BB
Thankee.

Some more news is that there has been some scavenging of the wreck since the initial discovery. A cannon that used to be there is now missing.
 

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It isn't a wreck so much as a pile of rocks representing a wreck, in other words it is the ballast rocks left after all the rest of the vessel has rotted away.
 

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While Haiti has virtually no existing governmental infrastructure and is one of the poorest places on earth, I don't believe it is populated by monkeys.

I had some missionary friends as well as military associates who spent some time there.

They did not have a real good time.
 

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While Haiti has virtually no existing governmental infrastructure and is one of the poorest places on earth, I don't believe it is populated by monkeys.

I had some missionary friends as well as military associates who spent some time there.

They did not have a real good time.
No, no monkeys in Haiti. The locals ate them, one and all. A law school classmate had a father who was something of an enterprenuer. He ran a "pirate" radio station broadcasting to Britain, and a number of other interesting things. Planned a resort at Cap Hatien, but it never happened. Just too many different people to bribe, and they weren't honest. Wouldn't stay bought, always back for more.

EDIT - that looks a bit harsher than i intended, about the moneys all being eaten by the locals. Was intended as a comment on the situation of way too many people for the available food resources, so that anything edible tends to be.
 

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Unfortunately, since 2003 , the monkeys have gone out and looted the site and lots of stuff, including the cannon, are gone . BB
It's a term I use to describe humanoids that act like they are the missing link. They don't think, they just act and usually destroy everything in their path, BB
 

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While Haiti has virtually no existing governmental infrastructure and is one of the poorest places on earth, I don't believe it is populated by monkeys.

I had some missionary friends as well as military associates who spent some time there.

They did not have a real good time.

I know a Pharmacist that goes there several times a year to volunteer her services to a charity clinic,

she stays busy, since the clinic is the only form of heath care some folks get,

they are well protected, and when they get a chance to get some R&R, they go to Costa Rica,
 

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GunBB what branch of the Aryan Nation do you belong too? Those are some very inflammatory and explosive comments.
 

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It was in todays WSJ. They found the wreck in 2003 but were skeptical that it was the Santa Maria. However, the location matches exactly, the place described by Columbus, as to where it was wrecked. Unfortunately, since 2003 , the monkeys have gone out and looted the site and lots of stuff, including the cannon, are gone . They did take extensive pictures, and that's what they will have to go on. Hey It's Haiti , a country so poor ,anything is worth something. The cannon was probably sold for scrap.
Not in your local newspaper ?? It's not news to the nitwit population we have allowed to foster.According to revisionist history, Columbus was a colonial exploiter, who subjugated indigenous happy people. They forget about their lifestyle that they have today, because of Columbus ,even the indigenous peoples.
Columbus subjugated few if any "indigenous happy people". If anything he exterminated them. People of Haiti are mostly descended from African slaves with little if any Indian blood. I doubt if anyone today has a lifestyle because of Columbus. Or would brag about it if they did.
 

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Columbus subjugated few if any "indigenous happy people". If anything he exterminated them. People of Haiti are mostly descended from African slaves with little if any Indian blood. I doubt if anyone today has a lifestyle because of Columbus. Or would brag about it if they did.
Cristoforo Columbo (Columbus , or Colon with a diacritical, if you will) subjugated few "indigenous happy people" or unhappy ones, either. He just didn't spend enough time in the new World to manage the feat between October, 1492 and his death in 1506. Not that he didn't try - that was his job as Viceroy, after all...
 

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GunBB what branch of the Aryan Nation do you belong too? Those are some very inflammatory and explosive comments.
I think most people should be thankful they weren't born into such a desperate environment. Prior generations cut down every tree to make charcoal to sell, leaving unprotected top soil to wash away, and destroying their ability to grow food. Our ship made port about 1958 at Ciudad Trujillo, DR ; military w/subgun on every corner. But no crime 24/7, and Military actually acted like they were there to protect and serve. We were told , anyone taking a trip into Haiti would be punished. Talked with locals and they described life for Haitians as pretty much Hell. Life is really rough throughout much of that region. While we were in Kingston, Jamaica, some sailors off another ship were cut by one of the machete gangs. The miracle is that some people growing up in such places and exposed to that violence are somtimes nicer than some more fortunate people like us.
 

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Not a warship per se, but 500+ years ago there were few specialized sailing warships. The Santa Maria was a medium size nau, or carrack, built as a merchant vessel, of slightly over 100 tons, perhaps 60 feet long on deck. She was lost at Cap Hatien on the first voyage of Columbus, on the night of December 25, 1492, when the crew fell asleep and a cabin boy steered the ship ashore. The painting is overly dramatic.



Exclusive: Found after 500 years, the wreck of Christopher Columbus’s flagship the Santa Maria

Shipwreck found off coast of Haiti thought to be one of the most significant underwater discoveries in history

David Keys
Tuesday, 13 May 2014
The Independent (UK)


More than five centuries after Christopher Columbus’s flagship, the Santa Maria, was wrecked in the Caribbean, archaeological investigators think they may have discovered the vessel’s long-lost remains – lying at the bottom of the sea off the north coast of Haiti. It’s likely to be one of the world’s most important underwater archaeological discoveries.

“All the geographical, underwater topography and archaeological evidence strongly suggests that this wreck is Columbus’ famous flagship, the Santa Maria,” said the leader of a recent reconnaissance expedition to the site, one of America’s top underwater archaeological investigators, Barry Clifford.

“The Haitian government has been extremely helpful – and we now need to continue working with them to carry out a detailed archaeological excavation of the wreck,” he said.

So far, Mr Clifford’s team has carried out purely non-invasive survey work at the site – measuring and photographing it.

Tentatively identifying the wreck as the Santa Maria has been made possible by quite separate discoveries made by other archaeologists in 2003 suggesting the probable location of Columbus’ fort relatively nearby. Armed with this new information about the location of the fort, Clifford was able to use data in Christopher Columbus’ diary to work out where the wreck should be.

In pictures: Amazing archaeological discoveries

An expedition, mounted by his team a decade ago, had already found and photographed the wreck – but had not, at that stage, realized its probable identity.

It’s a current re-examination of underwater photographs from that initial survey (carried out back in 2003), combined with data from recent reconnaissance dives on the site (carried out by Clifford’s team earlier this month), that have allowed Clifford to tentatively identify the wreck as that of the Santa Maria.

The evidence so far is substantial. It is the right location in terms of how Christopher Columbus, writing in his diary, described the wreck in relation to his fort.

More at: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...umbuss-flagship-the-santa-maria-9359330.html#

Unfortunately, it turns out the wreck was not Santa Maria.

http://www.unesco.org/new/en/media-..._santa_maria_unesco_experts_say/#.VR0w-Rj3aK0
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Dang! I guess Clifford's discovery of the Whydah went to his head and he just had to discover another significant ship.

FYI with copper sheathing ships had to have bronze or copper fasteners to prevent galvanic corrosion dissolving the iron fasteners. The problem first showed up in the 1670's when the Royal Navy tried lead sheathing of hulls for protection from weed and barnacle buildup and the dreaded teredo worm, and recurred when copper sheathing was used 100 years later.
 
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