[russb]

Hello,

I am new to the forum, long time lurker, but not new to firearms. I have a question, well perhaps more specifically an historic question:

Recently I was rereading Gebhardt's The Official Makarov Pistol Manual and in Chapter Two on cleaning and lubrication it mentions using "winter lubricant No. 21" in the winter "at temperatures below +5 degrees C." (See section 22, pg. 22). I know Gebhardt's book is a translation of a 1957 Russian Manual but does anyone know exactly what is "winter oil No. 21"? My guess it is something along the lines of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner (mixture of some type of oil and kerosene) but that is just a guess.

Regards,

RussB

 

[ABTOMAT in memoriam]

Hello. I pulled out my original 1968 manual, and my 1956 armorer's handbook. My manual is not an exact matchup to the manual translated by Gebhart, but I could find a similar reference to lubrication that made no mention of a "winter lubricant No. 21." I then looked in a 1953 Mosin-Nagant manual. There was a reference to "lubricant No. 21" there. (Let me pause for a minute and point out that my ability with the Russian language is just as good as any brain damaged 5 year old Moscovite. That goes double for technical manuals that have words not found in the average Russian/English dictionary.) It appears to be vaseline thinned out with kerosene. Kerosene was also used to clean out the warm weather lubricant. I'll try for a better translation someday soon. The word, "vaseline," incidently, is a direct translation. With Regards, Yours, etc., ABTOMAT

 

[North Bender]

Abtomat .... that is as good an answer as probably is going to come along and thanks for your research!

 

[CW]

I've tried to get many Russians and Ukrainians to translate the armorer's handbook. You pretty much need to be an engineer as it is an extremely difficult task. Hat's off to you Abtomat for working on it.

 

[russb]

Yep, thanks Abtomat for your scholarly diligence. :thumbsup: Very interesting information from the Mosin-Nagant manual which might help with another historical "mystery" in section 24 (pg. 22) of Gebhardt's translation where he mentions the use of "gun oil" and "rifle oil." I don't suppose you would want to take a stab at those two as a I am guessing something got lost in the translation? I just think it would be interesting to actually know what these lubricants were. Today it seems so much effort is spent looking for the optimal firearms lubricant/cleaner--and of course one that is enviromentally friendly--when in reality something so readily available like an Ed's Red Brew is more than adequate to get the job done. Heck, I remember (long ago!) our company armorer telling us to use aviation transmission fluid to keep our weapons (m16A1) clean!

 

[ABTOMAT in memoriam]

Hi russb. I'll give it a go, with apologies to anyone who actually understands the Russian language! The word that transliterates into the english as "smazka" is Russian for oil or lubricant. A modifying word which transliterates as "rooshenoy" is placed before it. It means gun, handgun, or rifle. Thus you get a translation that can mean gun oil/lubricant, rifle oil/lubricant, and handgun oil/lubricant. I dragged out my Russian 1953 manual for the Mosin-Nagant and and matched it up with a 1957 SKS manual, a 1964 AKM manual, and a 1954 combination Nagant/TT-33 manual all use the same two words. My 1968 Makarov manual uses another modifying word which, ( I think,) indicates a lighter or less viscous oil. So, you could say that all the terms for oil are interchangable at least as far as the manuals done up 50 or so years ago were concerned. One other tidbit I'll throw out to everyone, just to add to the general confusion. The containers that were issued to the Russian military that actually were made to hold the oil were, in the case of the two compartment bottles, marked with two cyrillic letters. One letter looks like a capital "W" with a tail. It is pronounced "Sh" like in "shed." It is the first letter of two words that mean alkaline solution. The other compartment has an "H" on it. It is pronounced "Ni" like in Nick. It is the first letter in the word for mineral oil, not the words for gun oil. Go figure! Yours, etc., ABTOMAT

 

[slavcio]

Hello,

I am new to the forum, long time lurker, but not new to firearms. I have a question, well perhaps more specifically an historic question:

Recently I was rereading Gebhardt's The Official Makarov Pistol Manual and in Chapter Two on cleaning and lubrication it mentions using "winter lubricant No. 21" in the winter "at temperatures below +5 degrees C." (See section 22, pg. 22). I know Gebhardt's book is a translation of a 1957 Russian Manual but does anyone know exactly what is "winter oil No. 21"? My guess it is something along the lines of Ed's Red Bore Cleaner (mixture of some type of oil and kerosene) but that is just a guess.

Regards,

RussB

I use it all the time. Great stuff.

 

[russb]

OK slavcio, what is it? Any information on the can/bottle you think might be helpful in identifying this oil?

 

[North Bender]

slavico it would also be nice to post a picture and information on where you obtained the oil.