Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
4,850 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why we should reconsider "Reloading!" in a gunfighthttp://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...we-should-reconsider-Reloading-in-a-gunfight/

Conditioning our students to reflexively announce that their gun has run dry in the middle of a gunfight might be a dangerous habit to be avoided, at least in certain situations ...
*I found this article rather pointless...
An objective of your training should be "never run dry!" Become a COUNTER!

It's easy and common on the range to observe those who have not learned to become a COUNTER when they take steady aim, careful trigger pull and ... click! ... or the person standing there yanking on the trigger failing to notice a slide locked back on semi-auto pistol.
Running dry to slide lock or empty chamber is one thing not to do in a gunfight!

Do remember that there are pistols, rifles, revolvers that do not have a slide lock and magazines or cylinders that run empty without any notice.
Become a COUNTER and always have "one in the pipe"!
This can be most important if your opponent can see you and realize you are empty or in the process of reloading ... when he can charge in during the brief pause while you are stuffing fresh into your gun ... no matter how fast you are at a reload. Or, should you fail to notice you are standing there with the slide locked back pointing an obviously empty gun, it becomes his window of opportunity.

I am and have always been a COUNTER! In the era of the wheelgun, it was a necessity to know that the next trigger pull would not be falling on an already expended round.
Becoming a COUNTER is far easier than learning to be a card counter at the casino! Little to remember but a learned rote and repetition drill that must become part of your skill set.
Whether it be 15+1,10+1, 7+1 or 6 you learn to always be conscious of exactly how many went out and how many are left!

In the "great migration" from wheelguns to semi-auto 15+1 9mm, it was a challenge to adopt training practices to make LEOs into COUNTERS. While the standard "qualification course" did (still does) include a magazine change and reload during timed stage, it was insufficient to get everyone into the habit of COUNTING and keeping track. Always some duffus on the line caught with an empty gun! We had to devise specific drills to ensure that everyone would, at some point, be caught short of rounds if they failed to keep track and had to reload.
Those included starting with a magazine short of rounds, required extra rounds in a stressed and timed stage, and even staggering people on the line with different ammo counts so they all didn't end up near to empty at the same time and reflexively reload when everyone else dropped an empty magazine.

For your own purposes, during practice on the range, make it an absolute no-no to ever run dry to slide lock and punish yourself if you do! That goes for rifle, pistol and shotgun!
For shotgun, tactical shooting not clays, learn tactical reloading with one always in the chamber and ready to rock while you stuff with fresh.
Alter your drills so you are not always shooting a set number of rounds during each stage or at each distance. Design your drills to include a magazine change at some random point.
Add multiple target drills that require double taps on each and then deliberately screw up the count by requiring an odd number of shots at each. For the practiced "double tap" shooter, fix in your mind how many "sets" are in your magazine + the one in the pipe. In rapid fire stages, it can be easy to lose track of double taps and if you drop 3 instead of 2, you may throw off your count and end up short.

If you have ever found yourself pointing an empty gun at your target ready for the next shot ... had slide lock ... or click instead of bang... time to become a COUNTER!

Do note the point of the article when working as a TEAM where one member always have live rounds to cover the target while you recharge. Tactics of "suppressing fire" effectively alternates between two shooters with one being always full and ready to take over when the other runs dry. This is about the only time where calling out "reloading" is an appropriate TEAM tactic.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
52,964 Posts
Last week a shoot out in Bluefield Wva black suv's two I front of bar...get out group inside comes out ak pistle started banging...looked as though they shot up all their clips he said jumped back in drove off.
A friend parked in middle waiting on bus...layer low in the seat till it wAs over.....
He drove off after one pressed his face gun up against window...
News this morning no witnesses ....cars shot up, car in businesses windows, signs...thousands of dollars done...
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
52,964 Posts
No new tv thugs...moving in from cities last 6 or 7 years,...GETTING....worse .... hour from me .....
Those types have moved amongst us hillbillies ....few years back Jamaicans cam to town bringing the dope...gave everyone credit...shootings happen, they got burned, then burned out.....got out of town locks and all....police couldn't touch them...
But next to interstates......hour in three directions not south....City gangs are invading Rural WVa not the back roads foot hills and small towns.....the drugs come...not the thugs CPW..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
105,711 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Reloading?

Old time bullseye shooters tend to count to five, at least. Not intentionally, it just happens with shooting the course, especially in timed and rapid fire.

Established criteria for combat reloading is to reload A. After shots are fired, and B. When possible. Those two events are a combination, not either/or.

I find a good deal of the problems with reloading when under duress to be caused by modern 'combat shooting'. It strikes me the emphasis is placed on the mystique of the thirty round burst. In actual defensive shooting, that's an absurd proposition. Normal self-defense incidents involve three or less assailants and usually one. The idea of reloading once or twice to reduce a real situation gives rise to the myth of large capacity firearms and sustained fire.

The most import shot fired is the first shot. As Theodore Roosevelt said (about hunting, but it applies here as well) "Rapidity of fire can never make up for inaccuracy." (Or words to that effect.)
 

·
Copper Bullet member
Joined
·
4,850 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When to re-stuff ?
If you take the time to observe the majority of people on the range, it becomes readily apparent that many, pistol and rifle, will shoot to "slide lock", take careful aim once more, and pull the trigger.
Few notice slide or bolt locked back until the inevitable "nothing" happens. It's also a great way to observe their "flinch" and the muzzle dipping in anticipation.
If you let that become habit, it is very likely that under the stress of a real situation, you may end up puling the trigger on an empty gun, repeatedly, until you notice why there was no bang.

I admit to sometimes being lazy and letting the 10 rd mag run dry to slide lock before a mag change rather than counting down all 10 and leaving the 11th chambered for the mag change.
Bad habit I need to consciously break and avoid. It's not that I've lost count. I know full well how many I fired. It's not that I can't rapidly drop the empty, insert fresh and thumb the slide release.
It's just an acquired bad habit when I should instead be leaving the "ready round" chambered and muzzle still on target during the mag change out.

If you have ever caught yourself aiming and pulling the trigger with the slide locked back and an empty magazine, think about it. Is that something you want to change?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,319 Posts
Developing situational awareness includes knowing how many rounds fired and when to reload before
running dry. Every training session should be a gun fight mentality and not sterile target shooting mentality.

Never plink, make it work and not fun. Every round counts. Shoot / Train as you would fight.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
Joined
·
99,430 Posts
I don't have much gun-fight experience. In fact, I have used a hand gun precisely once in a real situation. The number of rounds fired were - one... It was a hit and when the gun (1911A1 with hardball service ammo) came out of recoil, the shootee was falling off the back of his motor bike and the guy at the controls had already turned sharply to the right and there was a Renault between me and him.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top