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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a 1925 Tula hex with laminated stock and matching numbers, with a decent bore at a gunshow a few weeks back. Finally had the time to take it back out of the box and give it a good cleaning today for photos to be posted here in a few days. Bad news: the barrel has been counterbored (how I missed this at the gunshow, I can't say. Maybe my poor eyesight? Bad lighting? Excitement over the other features?).

Why are so many Mosins counterbored? Does this have a negative effect on when the bullet leaves the rifling and enters this "expansion chamber"? I thought I really had a winner until I saw that. Any comments on counterboring?
 

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If the rifling is worn at the muzzle counterboring sort of extends the life of the barrel. Remember, the crown and muzzle are among the most important parts of accuracy. If the gas doesn't escape outward in a consistent manner as the bullet leaves you will not have a fun time shooting groups. Counterboring is almost the same as shortening the barrel to have rifling at the crown again. BUT.. if it wasn't counterbored concentrically with the bore you will have worse accuracy.

I can't explain it any better than that, sorry.

Many collectors are not bothered by counterboring but I am. I'd rather have a smoothbore sitting in the safe than a counterbore.
 

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As a collector and a shooter I guess I am willing to buy a peter the great that has been counterbored but not a 1927 izzy I guess for me the older anything is the more imperfections I am willing to accept to be taken away from it "original" condition . I to like the old dirty but operational war pigs but that does not influance my collection I buy some that look like they have been cryovacted since 1895 and some that look like a 1943 Izzy m44 I have that was fo sho issued and battle tested . I also have one of those that looks like it went from 1943 to 2010 in a bubble . So I guess my opinion is if you do it out of nestalga or out of investment you will get a differant prospective on what is "most valueable" .
 

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A counterbore on a Mosin is irrelevant to me. Counterbored guns shoot better than a non-counterbored gun with a worn crown. I would not be concerned or disappointed with it. Shoot it first before you condemn it.
 

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Some of my most accurate mosins have been counterbored. I look at a counterbore as a fix to an inaccurate rifle. Considering how long these barrels are, counterboring still makes for a long barrel compared to modern rifles. Hence, a counterbore has no meaning other than I probably have found a nice shooter when I get one.
 

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A counterbored rifle has never ever bothered me. It was done for a purpose, just like some refurb rifles get new stocks or other new parts. Instead of slapping on a new barrel or doing a proper recrown, it is faster and cheaper and just as good of a fix, to CB it. I agree with kss, some of my most accurate Mosin's are counterbored.
 

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I do not have a big problem with counter bores either.After all these are war time used rifles and have seen lots of action in many cases.I have seen a number of 91/30s that look
re crowned to with the end of the barrel polished.As stated if it shoots nice thats what counts !
 

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Counter bore means it had to be repaired. If the repair is done right, it shoots well. If not: shoots poorly. The problem is I know no way of telling if a CB is done right or wrong before I buy it. I try to avoid Counter bores and get rifles that have tight original muzzles although all the refurb rifles are clearly recrowned if not counterbored.

However, After 3 yrs, I finally found a great M38 but it was CB. I waivered and got it. IT shoots great but frankly: I was lucky in this regard and would never do it again. I took the risk and got away with a accurate rifle and it was a crap shoot.

Of course, if one is a collector more than a shooter, then a CB rifle with rare marks or dates is more important and worth buying...............just got to decide if you are a collector that shoots or a SHOOTER who sometimes collects. Or a SHOOTER who likes everything which is my approach.


 

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To those who avoid a counterbore because it "might shoot bad".... I have to tell you PLENTY of Mosins are out there that shoot REAL BAD with that uncounterbored but RODDED OUT muzzle!

Either way....you pays your money and you takes your chances!
 

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My very first Mosin (1944 M44) was counterbored. At the time, I'd never even heard of counterboring, so I didn't know the difference. It shoots OK. But I don't buy counterbored guns any more. They just don't appeal to me.
 

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No problem with counterbores in my experience.

There might be some bad counterbores out there but the ones that I've shot and owned have not shown poor accuracy - But good accuracy!

With regards to Mosin Nagants I would not avoid a counterbored one if it were something that I wanted/needed.

Tiledude
 

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Man! Live and learn! I was told that counter boring was done to facilitate muzzle loading should you ever run out of regulation cartridges...:grin:
 

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I was told that those sneaky Rooshins counterbored their rifles so that they'd have a built-in flash suppressor so they couldn't be seen!
 

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"NON_COUNTERBORED RIFLE"= A reason for some dealers and auction sellers to charge more for a rifle using a non-relevant feature.
How many here understand how a barrel wears? most mosins that have worn bores have them because they weren't cleaned and formed rust, or were cleaned improperly.
The first place most rifle barrels erode from firing is the leade. I suspect a lot of us have mosins with a worn leade and don't even know it, because you can't see it.
At the same time, someone has talked a lot of us into turning our noses up at a counterbore? It's a free world with free choice, but all of them choices dunt don't make sense to me.
These are my personal views, and I do not require anyone to agree with them. feel free to take exception to them if you want to.

y'all have a good day. Keith
 

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One thing to remember is that just because a given rifle has been counterbored, that doesn't necessarily mean there was anything wrong with the muzzle of that particular piece. If a batch of rifles was put through a refurbishment program, and one of the items in the program was to counterbore them, that it got counterbored, need it or not.
 

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milprileb said:
Counter bore means it had to be repaired. If the repair is done right, it shoots well. If not: shoots poorly. The problem is I know no way of telling if a CB is done right or wrong before I buy it.
This logic has never failed me. You can call me unlucky, or whatever, but all the rifles that I've had that have been c/b'd have not been as accurate as those that have had a visibly decent crown and were not c/b'd. I'm not saying that a counterbored gun can't be accurate, but the odds are much better with one that is not and has at least a half way decent crown. If it's a rifle that's going to fill in a gap in the collection (specific year, arsenal, etc.), it doesn't bother me. However, if I'm looking for one that I know I will want to be a good shooter, a c/b barrel is an instant disqualification for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the replies. In a "What should I look for" Mosin thread I posted a few weeks ago, counterbored barrels were something to be shunned at all costs. After reading these, I feel a bit better. I figured that those steel cleaning rods would wear out the end of the barrel, and that's why they were counterbored. Mine appears to be concentric from shining a light in there--Cb'd about an inch or a little more. The bore is certainly clean now--worked on it for hours yesterday, even though it looked bright at the gunshow, dirty patches kept coming out until finally a white one came out.

I'll post pictures probably Monday; it takes me awhile to process them with my old computer. The rifle looks fantastic after the clean-up job--all that gooey cosmo is out of the nooks and crannies. That laminated stock is amazing, and all the Cyrillic writing on the receiver looks great, especially since I white-filled it. There isn't even a scratch on the buttplate. I did have to patiently work on the bayonet socket quite a bit for it to fit the rifle properly, though.
 
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