[theredballoon]

I have a UK gun licence but am new to this forum and to BP shooting and am looking to buy my first BP revolver from a dealer in the USA. The reason is that I am told by my gun dealer here that there is currently some difficulty in getting supplies of Italian replicas - partly due, he says, to a bias for supplying US gun dealers! Hence my quest.
I have asked Cabela and Taylor's and Co who say they do not ship here, and am waiting on Dixie Gun Works for a reply. In the meantime, any of you guys out there got suggestions?
(Of course, I realise I cannot have such a weapon shipped to me direct)

 

[TFoley]

Hi, tac here - I live in the UK, BTW, most of the time, and shoot here too with my local gun club.

Currently, IF you can find a US dealer who will send a single BP handgun to your local dealership, you are, theoretically onto a winner.

However, you might be very disappointed.

Firstly, the exchange rate is not doing you any favours right now.

Secondly, the import tax, plus the actual value, plus shipping and insurance to the dealer -all added up and subject to our recently-reduced VAT, might actually make the thing way more expensive than going to any number of dealers around and making your choice from their existing stock.

Thirdly, the weapon will have to be subject to UK gun-proof before it can be passed to you on sale, even though it may have originated in Italy, part of the EU. Italian proof, usually carried out at the Gardone Val Trompia proof house, is NOT accepted here in UK - all Italian BP arms have to be proofed to be sold here.

YOU will have to pay for that, too.

My own local dealer has at least fifteen BP revolvers, and the likes of Henry Krank and Yorkshire Guns have many more.

BTW - Dixie Gun Works will NOT ship firearms out of the USA. Period.

Hope this helps.

tac & ig, the Christmas Vulture

PS - it is usual to post your approximate location in your profile, which, I note, is totally empty. Most of us here like to know a little bit about the folks we are talking to. Nothing personal, y'unnersta', but for all we know, you might be a nark or gubmint sneak.

Welcome, BTW.

 

[theredballoon]

Thanks for this,TFoley, very helpful. I was prepared for the various costs you mention but did not know about the proofing issue. Looks like you've saved me a lot of wasted effort. By the way, it was a guy at Henry Kranks who gave me the information on supplies. He also said there was an issue in getting hold of the right type of steel for the guns at present. Finally, apologies for my non-existent profile, I'll get right on it. But, for the time being, I'll let you know I'm based on Yorkshire.
(By the way, I'm looking for a new .44 Remington 1858)

 

[TFoley]

Thanks for this,TFoley, very helpful. I was prepared for the various costs you mention but did not know about the proofing issue. Looks like you've saved me a lot of wasted effort. By the way, it was a guy at Henry Kranks who gave me the information on supplies. He also said there was an issue in getting hold of the right type of steel for the guns at present. Finally, apologies for my non-existent profile, I'll get right on it. But, for the time being, I'll let you know I'm based on Yorkshire.
(By the way, I'm looking for a new .44 Remington 1858)

Give Fenland Rural sports a call - I'm pretty sure they have on in the case!

Tell them I sent you - tac from Oundle R & P club. [wink]

Lots of luck

tac and ig, the Christmas Vulture

RIP - Norman the Turkey Buzzard, aged approximately eleven. Gorn but not fogotten.

 

[Calgacus]

In France you can buy one and walk out the door. I believe they want to see some kind of identity document, but that is just the shop's preference for selling to people with no reason to be afraid to show an identity document. Cap and ball revolvers are uncontrolled and unregistered there, with just the same status as antiques.

What you HAVE TO CHECK UP ON WITH CUSTOMS but I believe to be true, is that you can bring it into the UK with you. If not, I think you can post it to yourself from France. The other big benefit of France is that the £18 limit for duty-free import doesn't apply to imports from within the EC.

Needless to say, you should only do this if you already have a variation for this firearm on your firearm certificate. You could get caught. Eurostar always x-rayed passengers' baggage, and so may anybody else by now. I would write up the details in the space for firearms acquired, in the last minutes before leaving French soil.

Another issue is the regulations imposed by ferry companies, Eurostar etc. Breaking these might not be an offence, if you can count on anything not being an offence these days. But it might stop you using their services again.

The above is emphatically not a guide to what you can do without further inquiries. but it might give an idea where you ought to be looking.

Proof is mandatory when a dealer passes a gun to a member of the public, even if the latter has paid for it. You, in turn, can't sell a non-British proved firearm to anyone except a dealer. But it isn't mandatory to own and use one.

 

[TFoley]

In France you can buy one and walk out the door. I believe they want to see some kind of identity document, but that is just the shop's preference for selling to people with no reason to be afraid to show an identity document. Cap and ball revolvers are uncontrolled and unregistered there, with just the same status as antiques.

What you HAVE TO CHECK UP ON WITH CUSTOMS but I believe to be true, is that you can bring it into the UK with you. If not, I think you can post it to yourself from France. The other big benefit of France is that the £18 limit for duty-free import doesn't apply to imports from within the EC.

Needless to say, you should only do this if you already have a variation for this firearm on your firearm certificate. You could get caught. Eurostar always x-rayed passengers' baggage, and so may anybody else by now. I would write up the details in the space for firearms acquired, in the last minutes before leaving French soil.

Another issue is the regulations imposed by ferry companies, Eurostar etc. Breaking these might not be an offence, if you can count on anything not being an offence these days. But it might stop you using their services again.

The above is emphatically not a guide to what you can do without further inquiries. but it might give an idea where you ought to be looking.

Proof is mandatory when a dealer passes a gun to a member of the public, even if the latter has paid for it. You, in turn, can't sell a non-British proved firearm to anyone except a dealer. But it isn't mandatory to own and use one.

All very apposite, Calgacus, and, as you point out, extremely dodgy. The French gun-dealer is obliged by EU law to ensure that he is not selling anything to a person who is not entitled to have in his possession, so he might be on a very sticky wicket there.

As for proof, you reinforced my point was that the dealer who handled the arm, on his behalf cannot legally pass it on to him without it having been proofed, since the arm has technically, as well as factually, been in the dealer's temporary possession pending the transfer.

Best wishes for the upcoming festivations -

tac

 

[theredballoon]

Thirdly, the weapon will have to be subject to UK gun-proof before it can be passed to you on sale, even though it may have originated in Italy, part of the EU. Italian proof, usually carried out at the Gardone Val Trompia proof house, is NOT accepted here in UK - all Italian BP arms have to be proofed to be sold here.

Are you sure? I got this from the Birmingham Gun Barrell Proof House:

Until June 1980, there was reciprocal agreement for recognition of certain foreign proof marks by international agreement. Since June 1980 when the United Kingdom became a member of the International Proof Commission
(the CIP), the United Kingdom has recognised all the proof marks of other member nations and reciprocally they all recognise United Kingdom marks.

Italy are one of the member nations.

But I also wonder whether the Italians would proof the export arms to the States.

As for the French connection, I don't even want to go there.

 

[mr44]

knowbody wants the evil eye from the queen

 

[falm16]

redballoon, if you get caught, calgacus knows a real good lawyer he can recommend.

 

[Calgacus]

Are you sure? I got this from the Birmingham Gun Barrell Proof House:

Italy are one of the member nations.

But I also wonder whether the Italians would proof the export arms to the States.

As for the French connection, I don't even want to go there.

I think that is correct, although the Birmingham Proof House probably tells you who is currently a member, or shows you where to find out.

They aren't above slanting their opinions in a direction that makes extra business for themselves, in a country with a gunmaking industry that can't really support two proof houses. They claim it is necessary to reprove a firearm with a sound suppressor (fairly freely available in the UK) when one is fitted. But I know one case where they "proved" and marked one for a bullet diameter that couldn't possibly have passed through it.

 

[TFoley]

I think that is correct, although the Birmingham Proof House probably tells you who is currently a member, or shows you where to find out.

They aren't above slanting their opinions in a direction that makes extra business for themselves, in a country with a gunmaking industry that can't really support two proof houses. They claim it is necessary to reprove a firearm with a sound suppressor (fairly freely available in the UK) when one is fitted. But I know one case where they "proved" and marked one for a bullet diameter that couldn't possibly have passed through it.

Actually, the re-proofing is required after the barrel has been screw-cut for a suppressor, not WITH a suppressor - a removable item. This is in the case where a rifle has already been sold without screw-cutting , but the owner later acquires a moderator/suppressor.

BTW - I just checked on my local gun dealer's stock of several Italian-made BP handguns - ALL showed not only full GVT [Gardone Val trompia] proof-house marks, but also Birmingham proof on every chamber of the cylinder, the frame and the barrel, along with the actual caliber and recommended BP load appropriate to the caliber.

All are new.

tac

 

[theredballoon]

Give Fenland Rural sports a call - I'm pretty sure they have on in the case!

Tell them I sent you - tac from Oundle R & P club. [wink]

Nope, no luck there either!

 

[TFoley]

Nope, no luck there either!

Oh no!

Last time I was over they had a case-full of them!!

Sorry.

tac

 

[Alden]

This is a dog's dinner.
Eh! Where in Yorkshire lad?

The old year out,
The New Year in,
Please won't you let
The lucky bird in.
With bottle in hand
And a piece of black coal,
A stranger's a friend
When first-footing you go.

Alden

 

[TFoley]

I suggest you get hold of a Gun Mart magazine.

In there you will find advertisements from Henry Krank - www.henrykrank.com

THIS is the current list - I'm sure you can find something there -

PERCUSSION REVOLVER
150 Pietta Colt 1836 Patterson £385.00
151 Pietta. Colt 1836 Pat. "Old Silver"D/L .. £490.00
151A Pietta Colt 1836 Patterson Extra D/L P.O.A
152 Pietta Dance Revolver .. £220.00
153 Pietta. Colt 1851 Navy Sheriffs Brass .. £148.00
154 Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Sheriffs Steel .. £180.00
154A Pietta Colt 1851 Navy US Marshal .. £302.00
155 Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Brass .. £148.00
156 Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Steel .. £180.00
157 Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Carbine.. £160.00
158 Pietta Colt 1851 Conf. Sheriff's £148.00
159 Pietta Colt 1851 Confederate £148.00
160 Pietta Colt 1851 London Sheriff's £148.00
161 Pietta. Colt 1851 Navy London Model. £148.00
161A Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Conf. D/L £180.00
161B Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Conf. D/L Sheriff £180.00
161C Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Ni. D/L Grips £280.00
161D Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Nickel £275.00
162 Pietta Colt 1860 Army Steel £203.00
162A Pietta. Colt 1860 Army Steel Sheriff's £203.00
163 Pietta Colt 1860 Army D/L Engraved £289.00
163H Pietta Colt 1860 Army D/L Hand Eng P.O.A
163B Pietta Colt 1860 Army Brass.. £164.00
163BS Pietta Colt 1860 Army Brass Sheriffs.. £164.00
163A Pietta Colt 1861 Navy.. £190.00
163AS Pietta Colt 1861 Navy Sheriffs.. £190.00
163S Pietta Colt 1861 Navy Steel.. £203.00
164 Pietta Colt 1862 Police £190.00
164S Pietta Colt 1862 Police Sheriffs.. £190.00
164SB Pietta Colt 1862 Police Brass Backstrap.. £160.00
164P Pietta Colt 1862 Police Pony Express.. £160.00
164PS Pietta Colt 1862 Police Pony Express Sheriffs.. £160.00
164M Pietta Colt 1862 New York Metropolitan Police.. £196.00
165 Pietta Colt 1862 Spiller & Burr.. £172.00
166 Pietta Remington 1858 Texas.. £164.00
166A Pietta Remington 1858 Competition.. £499.00
166B Pietta Remington 1858 Competition Stainless.. £615.00
167 Pietta Remington 1858 Nickel.. £185.00
168 Pietta Remington 1858 New Model Army Target. £203.00
168S Pietta Remington 1858 Army Target Stainless.. £275.00
169 Pietta Remington 1858 New Model Army Stainless. £260.00
170 Pietta Remington 1858 New Model Army Deluxe.. £310.00
170HE Pietta Remington 1858 Army Hand Engraved POA
171A Pietta Remington 1858 New Model Army.. £185.00
171B Pietta Remington 1858 Buffalo Steel.. £236.00
171C Pietta Remington Buffalo Texas £185.00
171D Pietta Remington Buffalo Nickel £194.00
171E Pietta Remington Buffalo Stainless Steel £325.00
174 Pietta Starr 1858 Double Action Revolver £330.00
174A Pietta Starr 1863 Single Action Revolver £325.00
177 Armi San Marco Colt Walker £220.00
178 Armi San Marco Colt 1st Model Dragoon £215.00
178A Armi San Marco Colt 2nd Model Dragoon £215.00
178B Armi San Marco Colt 3rd Model Dragoon £215.00
180 Pietta Le Mat Cavalry Model £699.00
180A Pietta Le Mat Cavalry Model Deluxe £1,650.00
181 Petta Le Mat Army Model £699.00
182 Pietta Le Mat Navy Model £699.00
183 Euroarms Rem 1858 Blue £189.00
183A Euroarms Rem. 1858 Lothar Walther Barrel Blue £264.00
184 Euroarms Remington 1858 Stainless £280.00
184A Euroarms Rem. 1858 Lothar Walther Barrel Stainless £360.00
185 Euroarms Remington 1858 Target Blue £205.00
186 Euroarms Remington 1858 Target Stainless £290.00
187 Euroarms Rogers & Spencer Std Blue £295.00
187A Euroarms Rogers & Spencer Blue Walther £449.00
188 Euroarms Rogers & Spencer Std London Grey £360.00
188A Euroarms Rogers & Spencer London Grey Walther £560.00
189 Euroarms Rogers & Spencer Blue Target £335.00
190 Euroarms Rogers & Spencer London Grey Target £380.00

UBERTI PatersoN BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U090 Paterson (without lever) (7 1/2” Barrel) £268.00
U091 Paterson (with lever) (7 1/2” Barrel) £286.00

UBERTI WALKER BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U020 Walker (9” Barrel) £235.00

UBERTI DRAGOON BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U080 1st Mod Dragoon (7 1/2” Barrel) £225.00
U081 2nd Mod Dragoon (7 1/2” Barrel) £225.00
U086 3rd Mod Dragoon (7 1/2” Barrel) £225.00
U082 3rd Mod Drag (frame cut for shoulder stock) (7 1/2”) £240.00
U083 Dragoon Whitneyville (7 1/2” Barrel) £235.00

UBERTI 1851 NAVY BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U000 1851 Navy (oval trigger guard) (7 1/2” Barrel) £180.00
U006 1851 Navy (square back trigger guard) (7 1/2” Barrel) £180.00
U003 1851 Navy Leech Rigdon (7 1/2” Barrel) £185.00
U005 1851 Navy London (steel BS and TG) (7 1/2” Barrel) £196.00

UBERTI 1861 NAVY BLACK POWDER REVOVER
U050 1861 Navy (steel BS and TG. cut for shldr stock) (7 1/2” Barrel) £191.00
U063 1861 Navy Civil (brass BS and TG) (7 1/2” Barrel) £180.00

UBERTI 1860 ARMY BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U040 1860 Army (8” Barrel) £205.00
U041 1860 Army (fluted cylinder) (8” Barrel) £207.00
U047 1860 Army (without cut for shoulder stock) (8” Barrel) Discontinued
U048 1860 Army (brass BS and TG) (8” Barrel) £199.00

UBERTI 1848-1849 BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U031 1848 Baby Dragoon £180.00
U035 1849 Pocket £182.00
U038 1849 Wells Fargo £180.00

UBERTI 1862 BLACK POWDER REVOLVER
U070 1862 Police (6 1/2” Barrel) £194.00
U071 1862 Police (5 1/2” Barrel) £194.00
U075 1862 Pocket Navy (6 1/2” Barrel) £194.00
U076 1862 Pocket Navy (5 1/2” Barrel) £194.00

UBERTI NEW ARMY REMINGTON BLACK POWDER REVOLVERS
U100 1858 New Army (8” Barrel) Improved £195.00
U110 1858 New Navy (7 3/8” Barrel) Improved £195.00
U101 1858 New Army Target (8” Barrel) Improved £215.00
U102 1858 New Army Stainless Steel (8” Barrel) £270.00
U103 1858 New Army Target Stainless Steel (8” Barrel) £285.00

Happy new Year!

tac

 

[theredballoon]

The story so far...
I now have identified a gun dealer in the States who will ship to the UK - also another in Europe. I have now established an authorisation from HM Customs & Excise. I am waiting on an answer from the Birmingham Proof House. I will be my own courier.
I still have not found one gun dealer in the UK who can supply me with a new 1858 Remington.
Maybe I should go into business...

 

[Alden]

Red...

Absolutely you go into business as you've established the approach. Well done you!

Now all you need is a store, inventory, customers, lots of liability insurance, a solicitor (on retainer), significant security precautions and an appreciation for scrutiny by HM Secret Service and Inland Revenue at least until GB becomes the shining islamic star in the EU...

Alden

 

[theredballoon]

Absolutely you go into business as you've established the approach. Well done you!

Now all you need is a store, inventory, customers, lots of liability insurance, a solicitor (on retainer), significant security precautions and an appreciation for scrutiny by HM Secret Service and Inland Revenue at least until GB becomes the shining islamic star in the EU...

Alden

Er - maybe not then.

 

[theredballoon]

I suggest you get hold of a Gun Mart magazine.

In there you will find advertisements from Henry Krank - www.henrykrank.com

THIS is the current list - I'm sure you can find something there -

Happy new Year!

tac

Happy New Year to you but, no, I spoke to Kranks and no new Uberti Remingtons got a Pedersoli match version for lots of money. Kranks say there is a steel shortage for these replicas in Italy and most of the manufacure is going to the States - true or not?

 

[TFoley]

Happy New Year to you but, no, I spoke to Kranks and no new Uberti Remingtons got a Pedersoli match version for lots of money. Kranks say there is a steel shortage for these replicas in Italy and most of the manufacure is going to the States - true or not?

Total bollocks.

I was in the dealer I told you about this afternoon, looking at his nice BP revolvers - sadly, he only had about twenty in the cabinets...

There was a BEEEEEOOOTIFUL Mang in Graz percussion target pistol there though.....might be tempted, me.

tac