[Cannonball888]

If you wanted to buy a 91/41 for a collector and a shooter but had to choose between two rifles that were pretty much identical except one is in 8mm, which one would you get and why?

I'm thinking 8mm is cheaper ammo to shoot and there is also the possibility of a rarer gun if you believe the story about the Italians conforming to German ammo standards during the war, but to the contrary I've also read that 8mm conversions were actually postwar...(?) On the other hand, 6.5mm is truly Italian, but the downside is ammo cost.

 

[stevenjay1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the M91/41 was made in or converted to 8mm. Steve

 

[Cannonball888]

Definitely a Terni barrel. Could it have been done postwar?

 

[stevenjay1]

Are you sure it is a M91/41?

 

[Cannonball888]

Positive.

 

[Carcano]

Buyers beware

There are a few (VERY rare) late German conversions of the M. 91/41 rifle around, and also some fakes. One crook tried to peddle such a fake here on Gunboards some time ago. Our creep had done his (subjective) best to emulate the pictures in Darrin Weaver's book, but the best was not good enough. 8)

Carcano

 

[Cannonball888]

So, Carcano, can I safely assume if an 8mm 91/41 is the real deal then it would have a higher collector's value than a standard one?

 

[Carcano]

So, Carcano, can I safely assume if an 8mm 91/41 is the real deal then it would have a higher collector's value than a standard one?

Yes, a definitely higher one. That is, if you are using the term M. 91/41 correctly. Give us a more thorough description of the gun and its markings.

Carcano

 

[5thDragoons]

A genuine Kreighoff 7.9 conversion will be very much more expensive than a common M41 long rifle but would be the better investment IMO. SW

 

[Cannonball888]

Yes, a definitely higher one. That is, if you are using the term M. 91/41 correctly. Give us a more thorough description of the gun and its markings.

Carcano

I see 792 on the barrel but it could have been done postwar for Middle East export. What would indicate a Krieghoff conversion?

 

[5thDragoons]

What would indicate a Krieghoff conversion?

For starters, a separate serial number range - "HK" ( Heinrich Kreighoff) in a circle stamped on the receiver ring and "7.9" on the narrow barrel 'ledge' just ahead of the receiver.

Also a wooden magazine block that effectively makes the rifle a single shot. There are a few other things to look for, but these will get your blood pumping until you can check further. There are few of these around and prices are quite high.

As mentioned above, be very leery of fakes! SW

 

[Carcano]

I see 792 on the barrel but it could have been done postwar for Middle East export.

No, couldn't.

Thank you for the nice pictures. I cannot help noting that they very elegantly gloss over the important and telltale parts of the weapon, which are either not shown at all, or not in detail .

Carcano

 

[smokerifle]

I have seen only one 91/41 in 8MM with markings indicating war-time production in over 40 years collecting Carcano rifles. The one I saw was in the federal arsenal museum in Italy. They do exist but as indicated already, very rare. BTW, the bolt was also marked on the shoulder not with an "S" but with a circle "K". They are truly RARE !!

 

[Calgacus]

Well, the omissions in the pictures would only seem significant to someone who knew the importance of what was omitted. Someone using deliberately misleading pictures to sell it would surely be trying for the high-priced market where people would know and ask, rather than to a collector-shooter like Cannonball, who would nearly as soon have an inexpensive 6.5mm.

I wonder what is the basis for saying it is 8mm? Does it exclude the possibility that it could be someone's conversion to 7.35mm?

 

[Franchi]

I would like to see a close photo of the front sight and the 7.92 marking. This rifle was reported by Rich Milton (long time German military collector quite a few years ago as an early "HK" rifle). He reported it had an HZa on the lower buttstock spine, is it there? He also reported it had the wood magazine plug, does it? Also an electric penciled bolt 2053. The rear elevator was removed and the fixed sight was altered lower (as shown in your photo). Also 053 added to the LS of the receiver (as shown in your photo). It's possible it is an early "HK" but I would like to see more photos and the above questions answered.
David Franchi

 

[Cannonball888]

Thanks for all the input guys. Unfortunately I don't have the rifle. The rifle is listed on a European website, and those are all the posted photos. I have emailed them with questions regarding the rifle, but they are unresponsive.