[ITWORKEDOUT]

I am seeing crazy stuff all the time, that I thought I would NEVER see.....Here is my latest observation

I am pretty PO'd at guys who abuse the CMP and load up and then within a few months flip the rifles they bought and try to play pseudo dealer....

I have been seeing MANY M1's with docs dated within One year of when they were originally purchased as of late......Disturbing.....

 

[pwcosol]

Let's look at where this all began. I started collecting in the 1970s. Most guys obtained collectibles in their geographical location, through personal contacts with others, and maybe via trade magazines like Shotgun News. Auctions were also primarily regional as well and general in nature. By the late 1980s the collecting fraternity got a big boost by importation laws being changed to allow C & Rs to be imported into the U.S. once again and from China as well. More auction houses began dealing specifically with militaria (arms in particular) and advertised nationally. By the 1990s, the telecommunications boom lead to all the delights we have today...the internet, online auction houses, Social(ist) Media, and the ability for anyone, anywhere, to impart their stupidity to those foolish enough to listen.

One well-known authority on the P.38 pistol had been keeping track of particularly scarce and collectible pistols for decades by variation, serial number, etc. He stated in all too many cases, he would see the same pistols sell at auction, disappear for a few years and return to the auction scene seeking a strong mark-up from what often was a previous record price. It was apparent many arms were not being acquired by collectors per-se, but held for investment purposes only. Now come to 2019 and the Covid outbreak. A sizeable portion of the population is staying or working from home. Collector events are cancelled or few in number. The government is handing out money like it was Halloween candy. Even Las Vegas is shuttered. What do you end up with? The collectible militaria marketplace, (primarily via auction format) has become the new Casino Royale. Crazy prices become rampant, profiteers proliferate and a "anything for a buck" mentality takes root. You can have it all for just a click of the mouse or smart phone key...

 

[Frosty]

an excellent description pw!

 

[old greybeard]

Collector cars are just as bad. I’ve only been in that hobby for a year and the parallels to gun collecting are obvious.
Lots of guys who bought cars cheap complaining about prices being paid. Meanwhile the Chevelle SS they bought for $2500 in 1985 is now worth $80k. New guys buying off the internet at Mecum asking what did they just buy.
Lots of states have average household incomes north of 100k. There’s lots of money available out there with only so many nice things to buy.

 

[vintovka]

Lots of states have average household incomes north of 100k. There’s lots of money available out there with only so many nice things to buy.

This. Not having enough $ to buy something is acceptable. Having plenty of $ and NOT being able to buy what you want is maddening.

 

[FGD135]

Are you saying that because nobody can be trusted, that people deserve to be ripped off, if they trust? People seem to take this attitude to lend legitimacy to what they do. If someone rips you off, that doesn't give you the right to rip the next guy off either. "caveat emptor" is not a right.

I stand by what I said. You need to do your own due diligence in any transaction, esp. when buying firearms. Spending your time and your money on research beforehand . Use the excellent online resources these days to YOU from making a buying mistake.
The jokers who knowingly sell something that isn't what they say it is have always been common in the firearms world, long before the interwebs... and the 'net has only encouraged that kind of thing.

 

[BlackPowder]

This. Not having enough $ to buy something is acceptable. Having plenty of $ and NOT being able to buy what you want is maddening.

There are parallels in all the “luxury” markets. Right now it seems like there’s a surplus of cash, and not a surplus of items. A lot of new collectors, who have come of age in the age of social media, who are accustomed to see stuff flaunted (and to flaunt their stuff) on Facebook, Instagram, etc. are now into guns. They’re also into watches and other goods. The key is not so much intrinsic value as it is uniqueness and exclusivity. “I have one of these and I bet you don’t.” Or “I have three of these look how neat they are.”

In many cases the items themselves aren’t worth that much, but the fact that they can’t be purchased by just anyone with a credit card on a website, and are simply not available in the market, makes them highly desirable. When they do come up for sale they now go for increasingly high prices.

 

[vintovka]

There are parallels in all the “luxury” markets. Right now it seems like there’s a surplus of cash, and not a surplus of items. A lot of new collectors, who have come of age in the age of social media, who are accustomed to see stuff flaunted (and to flaunt their stuff) on Facebook, Instagram, etc. are now into guns. They’re also into watches and other goods. The key is not so much intrinsic value as it is uniqueness and exclusivity. “I have one of these and I bet you don’t.” Or “I have three of these look how neat they are.”

In many cases the items themselves aren’t worth that much, but the fact that they can’t be purchased by just anyone with a credit card on a website, and are simply not available in the market, makes them highly desirable. When they do come up for sale they now go for increasingly high prices.

Anyone else think that Credit Card (and other trackable sales) over $600 being reported as income to IRS is already changing the market? The new "net tax" may be adding to impacts.

 

[mike radford]

I honestly don't think that's a valid comparison (or a good reason not to own a PU).

WWII German militaria is a deep dark forest, but weeding out fake PUs is still dead simple.

I have said this since about 1994 or 95. The PU remains the best WW2 sniper value and ID is not that hard. Just read here or ask. A PE or PEM, restored is about the only option, is still a good value, the more original parts the better. A Dmitry PEM mount is great to save money and get the look. Original PE and PEM scopes can be found.

I have always bought mostly because it is something I like and want but with a thought of will it hold value or appreciate. I am lucky my taste and judgment have been good on what I bought. Folks thought I was crazy to buy so many PUs. They also thought I was crazy to sale my loaded 67 Vette 427 to upgrade my 57 and later get a 63 Coupe I had lusted for since 1974. Both have done well and the 63s are as expensive as the 67s, There are more 67 427s now than were made, very widely faked. A must sale to survive the 12-18% inflation when on a fixed income has to be considered at some point. I am betting on 12% inflation for this year, gas at $4 by May and $5/gal by Labor Day.

Main point is to enjoy and hopefully the investment will be sound. Those that buy strictly for investment hurt the market. Same thing has happened in the collector car market a couple of times and some folks made some good money but most lost a whole lot. Such buyers will do the same on collectable firearms. Trends happen.

Caleb, hope all is well. I sure miss SOS and NGD. A return is likely though.

 

[Miller Tyme]

The guy who owned are marina had a brother with a 63 split window. One day over beers he told me a lot of owners of 63's had the center bar out of the rear window and had the frame fixed to accept the 64 back glass as it was a simple way to own a new "64".

What people will do to drive the latest model 😅

 

[Nirvana]

Im tired of trying to save foolish people. That RTI is still in business is proof positive that the firearm collecting community simply has no desire to learn, and no ability to recognize patterns. Google is available - and free - so there is no excuse anymore. Let them get screwed.

 

[ITWORKEDOUT]

Nirvana,

Very well said..... Some people never learn......When these imports forst emerged it was One thing! Almost 2 years later...Come On!

What will amaze me is when people get their Ethiopian goat turds and whine endlessly how RTI screwed them.....NO YOU SCREWED YOURSELF!

 

[vintovka]

A must sale to survive the 12-18% inflation when on a fixed income has to be considered at some point. I am betting on 12% inflation for this year, gas at $4 by May and $5/gal by Labor Day.

Too late Gas is now at $4+ and Diesel is approaching $5. Even the Dollar Store is at $1.25

 

[shulepov1971]

When I saw Arnold Schwertzneger as a Soviet police captain in Red Heat (1988) as a young man, I thought his phrase "Capitalism!" was a joke.
A little more than 30 years have passed, and I have long understood that the screenwriter "hit the mark." On the other side of our planet, the same situation sometimes arises, the age of globalization...
It's just that everyone chooses for himself what is more important for him: to remain a HUMAN, or to remain with PROFIT.
Let's stay HUMAN!

 

[8mm_mauser]

In the 21st century, military arms collecting has been transformed from a niche hobby to a widespread phenomenon. One of the issues with that is that everyone is now looking at these firearms as “investments” or in some other financial manner, rather than buying them to shoot, personally collect, etc. Buying firearms as “investments” is generally a poor concept for any number of reasons (the number of restrictions on selling/buying them/ever increasing laws/etc.) but I won’t go into that.

Point being, this “investor” mindset has lead to the current marker of innumerable fakes and ever increasing/outrageous prices, because every single person thinks “well if I buy the gun for $1500, I could easily sell it for $2000 in a year.” This nonsense investor mentality has seriously impacted and made the hobby worse for everyone.

You hit the nail right on the head unfortunately. As a young collector who has only been doing this for like 9 years it's been a sad albeit strange mindset to watch. The point of what we do should be the preservation and enjoyment of history!

 

[8mm_mauser]

View attachment 3926350

the tide pods challenge was something else eh?

 

[bones92]

I understand Alden's point in the original post, but any adult willing to bid that much (currently $700+) without doing research is likely one of the following:

1. too lazy to do some research, and this is probably the least of the mistakes he's making with his money
2. has enough money that he doesn't think much about throwing money at things that catch his eye
3. knows it's a fake and doesn't care because he just wants a rifle that mimics a true PU, and he'll be happy with it regardless of what we think

 

[vintovka]

Might add in todays mindset the buyer can do no wrong and is totally protected. Liberal, no questions asked return policy's (including free return shipping) has really affected folks judgement. Many Assume well if i don't like it i can just return it and get all my $$ back. The tendency to buy without considering the consequences seem rampant. I'll bet more than half who buy online do not read the the ad. This a direct byproduct of "entitlement".

 

[LVSteve]

OK, what happened to my reply?

 

[LVSteve]

Might add in todays mindset the buyer can do no wrong and is totally protected. Liberal, no questions asked return policy's (including free return shipping) has really affected folks judgement. Many Assume well if i don't like it i can just return it and get all my $$ back. The tendency to buy without considering the consequences seem rampant. I'll bet more than half who buy online do not read the the ad. This a direct byproduct of "entitlement".

I am so glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read this. The image of the entitled reading the "all sales are final" condition they missed in their bidding frenzy had me snorting with laughter. Ain't I a stinker?