[ncreptile]

A dealer on GunBroker has a reproduction sniper done by century in the 2000s. It has a laughable scope mount and the rifle is 1937 Izhevsk.

The title is
Mosin Nagant M91/30 PU SNIPER 7.62X54R Russian WWII dated 1934 Original.

Since the forum doesn't allow live auction links you'll have to search for it using that name.
Nowhere does the description, pictures or title say it's a reproduction.. he simply states "sniper" "ww2 original" and "this could have been used in Vietnam because 1966 date".

I messaged him explaining PU snipers were not built until 1942 and the other issues with the rifle including the scope mount.. I explained the only thing legit on it sniper related was the scope.

I got a very quick snappy response of "I described it exactly as you stated"

I then went on to say that no he did not and he should at least let buyers know.

His response
"The picture and description of the Century tag, the date of 1966 on the scope and date of 1934 on the gun is pretty darn clear to anyone"

People like this are what make the community a dangerous place for newbies. sellers like this who purposefully leave information out so they can say "that's your problem for not researching it" when the buyer inevitably finds out they've been sold a fake sniper after being tricked into bidding by wordplay. I agree in caveat emptor but people shouldn't exactly be baited into thinking an item is something it's not. Sales tactics like this on GunBroker are not new or uncommon.. almost only a monthly basis I see some repro sniper being passed off as legit.. usually I message the seller to let them know and most of the time I never hear back from them, sometimes they'll thank me and edit it(kudos to them).. then there's sellers like this..


Ba

 

[milprileb]

The subject of ethics does not get enough attention these days on Collectors Forum, rather we get Joe Six Pack showing us some car wreck of a rifle he bought in the blind off GunPorker and then others here cheer lead him on with praise and excuses why the rifles flaws are "waiverable". Collecting or owning a righteous PU sniper is the result of doing one's homework, not buying in the blind, knowing who you are dealing with and condition, condition, condition.

Know who you buy from and know their track record. If that is inconvenient then one goes out on a limb and gets skunked.

There are those on this board if PM'd will give great advice if the buyer will slow down and take the time to get an opinion.

I'll tell you this, I've done business with NC Reptile, he accurately & precisely describes everything and is trustworthy....all of that well earned by years doing so. If he says a PU sniper is a POS faked rifle...take it to the bank. If he posts something like this on this board, its a good teaching point to novices on what wrong looks like.

 

[Liberty]

"Hammer and Sickle in a pentagon" This explains a bunch.

Most of these guys are just gun sellers, not historians.

 

[ncreptile]

"Hammer and Sickle in a pentagon" This explains a bunch.

Most of these guys are just gun sellers, not historians.

You don't need to be a historian to do the right thing.

 

[Coues106]

Shame that honesty has gone out the window just to make money. Don't know how we'll get back to a more honest society where your integrity is worth more. Thanks for your thoughts and for letting people know that they're in the wrong.

 

[GarandsAndTokarevs]

In the 21st century, military arms collecting has been transformed from a niche hobby to a widespread phenomenon. One of the issues with that is that everyone is now looking at these firearms as “investments” or in some other financial manner, rather than buying them to shoot, personally collect, etc. Buying firearms as “investments” is generally a poor concept for any number of reasons (the number of restrictions on selling/buying them/ever increasing laws/etc.) but I won’t go into that.

Point being, this “investor” mindset has lead to the current marker of innumerable fakes and ever increasing/outrageous prices, because every single person thinks “well if I buy the gun for $1500, I could easily sell it for $2000 in a year.” This nonsense investor mentality has seriously impacted and made the hobby worse for everyone.

 

[wwgunsguy]

Wherever people are prepared to make decisions based on emotions, you'll find opportunists ready to exploit that for personal gain.

Collectable firearms fit that bill.

 

[Jovialmadness]

More people entering the market. Fresh blood to squeeze. More cash to be made. Turds are showing up more being peddled by bigger turds. If there is money to be made, especially in this changing market, it will continue to get worse.

 

[JohnnySako]

I do not own a PU for this reason. Its the same reason I do not own a German helmet.

 

[Liberty]

in a pentagon

 

[Dallased]

I have had that one on my watch list just for gits and shiggles.
It is a new world we live in. Lying, deceiving, cheating, have always been around but now the media, the political folks, they make it an art form. When is the last time you heard a politician "not lie" a little bit. Many in the media give lip service to living life properly but have no clue as to how to do it themselves. We are a media driven culture and I, unfortunately, do not see it getting better. I particularly feel bad for the younger generations who are constantly bombarded with it. Responsibility for one's actions is a thing of the past.

 

[fourbore]

This is an interesting read. I purchased a fake sniper from a dealer who told me it was an original sniper that was redone. I forget the verbage. Re sniper? It was not. I think 2020 maybe, I paid 700. At that time the basic Mosin refurbs were running 400 plus. I got a nice period Russian scope and mount. The gun shoots great and I like it very much. As a result I purchased another Mosin, a correct carbine. I do this for fun. Not an investment. I see nothing wrong in who ever built my gun. I get close to 1 moa accuracy with the darn thing! I am actually afraid to tear it down and loose the accuracy.

No excuse for this seller posting a picture of a century label to cover himself if called out later for his misleading description. That is potentially nice gun for an honest 700 and instead it will sell for crazy money to some sucker.

 

[148Infantry]

I think it all boils down to GREED for the almighty dollar. Sellers want the most of it, uneducated buyers want an instant crown jewel collectible, "investors" want to hold on to their perceived wealth, so they buy whatever they tell themselves will survive the market for a return on more MONEY. It's all GREED AND MONEY, on all fronts. That's why this isn't an relaxing/enjoyable hobby anymore for many, and it's a mess for new guys trying to get a foothold. The old breed will eventually die off and their collections /hordes of stuff bought in the 50s-90s will be eaten up by a blood thirsty shark investor market. Gone are the good days forever. Welcome to Gun collecting Post 2020. New Era.

 

[Miller Tyme]

I have to laugh at some of these comments of people longing for "the good old days" I am old enough to remember M1 carbines for $20.00 shipped from the NRA, Enfield No1mk3 rifles strapped in piles on skids being sold by the pound, and other war surplus rifles for under $15.00. And the dishonesty even back then was rampant, it was just on older collectables, like Civil War stuff.

My Dad never understood why I paid $29.95 for a 91/30, which he could buy for $7.00 in the early 60's.
He thought it was an overpriced rip off. Every generation looks at the past through rose colored glasses.

But the truth be told in 50 years these times will be this generations "good old days".

Just my .02

 

[Saturn]

Obviously this kind of behavior is unscrupulous and wtong, but those here bemoaning the investment mindset annoy me as well. I sincerely doubt that if you bought a crate of Mosins for 20$ each back in the day that you would now be selling them at that price. If you picked up an SVD for 1000$ would you sell it on here for that? I'm a younger guy and just looking at the world today it's very very tempting to put money into firearms as an investment. Consider that the dollar is on a constant downhill trend ever since WW2 when we started just printing money, US jobs continue to be exported, cars are lower quality than ever (I'm a mechanic, I wouldn't buy anything made after 06), there are mega corporations buying up as much land as possible to force people to rent forever, Klaus Schwab wants us to own nothing and be happy, I'm paying into social security that I will almost definitely never see a dollar of ever again, the US government just dropped 6 trillion dollars on infrastructure while my city is building new toll roads, yeah, I may look at the gun market as a solid investment given that everything else I could put money into is a depreciating asset or it's just pixels and lines of code that don't mean anything. I'd love to buy some land some day soon but right now getting a mortgage is near impossible especially if you don't want to get married and risk losing half (or two thirds) of your money for the rest of your life. Gas is over 3$ a gallon and I have to spend around 100$ to stock my fridge and pantry with food that isn't loaded with poisons and chemicals. So yeah, I look at the gun market as a possible way to help myself not have to work for the rest of my natural born life, I'd like to retire at some point. Thanks to past generations our industries have been shipped overseas, the dollar buys a nickel's worth, we can't trust elections, taxes go up while our return on them goes down, and we'll be working till the day we die, there are no pensions anymore, just stocks and money markets that will all eventually pop.

 

[FootDoc]

Doe it looks like the "sniper" has the Century aftermarket aluminum scope base/mount, or are my eyes bad? Nice scope though. Hopefully, the whole package sells for for price of the PU scope plus a messed with 91/30. But, someone will probably bid it up and regret it later.

 

[Laufer]

ncreptile:

Did that embarrassed MN seller have the best feedback, Before his ignorance (or possibly lies) became apparent?

Did you then submit Negative Feedback to Gunbroker?

 

[fullchoke]

Obviously this kind of behavior is unscrupulous and wtong, but those here bemoaning the investment mindset annoy me as well. I sincerely doubt that if you bought a crate of Mosins for 20$ each back in the day that you would now be selling them at that price. If you picked up an SVD for 1000$ would you sell it on here for that? I'm a younger guy and just looking at the world today it's very very tempting to put money into firearms as an investment. Consider that the dollar is on a constant downhill trend ever since WW2 when we started just printing money, US jobs continue to be exported, cars are lower quality than ever (I'm a mechanic, I wouldn't buy anything made after 06), there are mega corporations buying up as much land as possible to force people to rent forever, Klaus Schwab wants us to own nothing and be happy, I'm paying into social security that I will almost definitely never see a dollar of ever again, the US government just dropped 6 trillion dollars on infrastructure while my city is building new toll roads, yeah, I may look at the gun market as a solid investment given that everything else I could put money into is a depreciating asset or it's just pixels and lines of code that don't mean anything. I'd love to buy some land some day soon but right now getting a mortgage is near impossible especially if you don't want to get married and risk losing half (or two thirds) of your money for the rest of your life. Gas is over 3$ a gallon and I have to spend around 100$ to stock my fridge and pantry with food that isn't loaded with poisons and chemicals. So yeah, I look at the gun market as a possible way to help myself not have to work for the rest of my natural born life, I'd like to retire at some point. Thanks to past generations our industries have been shipped overseas, the dollar buys a nickel's worth, we can't trust elections, taxes go up while our return on them goes down, and we'll be working till the day we die, there are no pensions anymore, just stocks and money markets that will all eventually pop.

I can't disagree with much of what you say. I would invest in something tangible that you like, that way you can enjoy it while it appreciates. I think that is happening with guns, but the ones that speculate, are like day traders. If values go up too fast, look for something to pop.

 

[FGD135]

Your premise is flawed when you use the word "community" to describe firearms sellers.. there's no sense, or any obligation, of "community" when it comes to making a buck or two... it is capitalism in action, "caveat emptor", and nothing else. Just like buying a used car on any corner lot in any town in America, proper buyer research and tire kicking is the best answer.

 

[fullchoke]

I would say online auctions are very risky. I know this 1st hand, because I have gone and inspected some of the local lots. Most of them don't say anything about barrel condition, and it's for a reason. The eventual winner will be actually a loser. I say bid like the barrel and action are rusted out, you won't get much, but you won't suffer the consequences either. Prices are going up so fast that you must inspect.