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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I just bought a '44 Izzy PU sniper and a '43 TULA ex sniper from R guns(apparently one of the last ones as they are out).
It seems between the 2 there would be an issued sniper.
The Izzy has a birch stock it has a hole where a liner was mortised in and removed under the tang during re furb
The Tula ex stock is a definitely an Izzy sniper stock. Under the tang is a metal shim that keeps the action out of the wood. Both rifles have a metal shim in the front trigger group stock screw.
The '44Izzy has been re barreled and the barrel was turned down to size fast it is a BIT heavier feeling. There is a witness scratch and the rifle stamped in the barrel. There are cartouches all over the recv'r. The scope number is long gone but you can see a dent. The SN has the 2 letters then the 9107. The rifle is all new, but for the recv'r.

The ' 43Tula has 3 or 4 cartouches maybe a few more nothing like the Izzy. The Sn is 2 letters I have to see how to do that and a SN of 22
I can see the top of the 2 on the recv'r side. The trigger is a worked trigger compared to the Izzy, by a lot. The pin is arsenal ed peened, it has to be it's just to good. The pin hole has been re welded and the hole brace milled down. The trigger has 4 cartouches 1 an Izzy ( see post) Both sides of the trigger are surfaced ground or milled. The whole thing is slick. NO wobble, no 1 stage safety no nothing 5 lb pull crisp break. Both of these rifles are fresh from R guns. Love the fancy zip tie mark in the nice ex Tula stock.
The action in the Tula sits on the back shim, about .035 above the wood it does not lay in the wood, like it's been floated(?) the barrel lays really tight in the front of the stock to the end of it.
I think I have found a real Mosin sniper trigger here , my second a mix 42 Izzy has one:).
So, how was this rifle set up from the arsenal? How was the barrel set in the rifle? I'm not changing anything just want to make it the way it was before it set. I can't wait to try that Tula.I'll The TULA has 3 shims 1 under the tang one in between the stock and front trigger guard screw AND a mushed up piece of tin in the trigger group route. Now remember this is from R guns. It has the NON SNIPER r gun stamp on the side of the rifle instead of the top. Who ever did this knew what they were doing. This rifle was on the way to being set up
Trigger
Font Logo Black-and-white
Footwear Shoe Number Black-and-white
Trigger Tool Revolver Gun accessory
Bumper Trigger Shotgun Automotive exterior Auto part
Black Font Photography Bumper
Auto part
Wood
Wood Pipe Metal
Wood Birdhouse Wood stain
I'm F.O.S. The other good trigger is on a converted Dragoon with a struck date of 1923 to 1924. The first stage it falls to the stop then a short pull that is a bit heavier than I thought. This ex PU trigger is great, that stock I don't know. If the recv'r hit it is has metal in it. I don't want to take it out it's really set in there. That trigger guard shim , jeesh. The recv'r is a Tula I think the barrel is too. The ejector spring has a Tula star on it. There are other scribe marks on it around the trigger that I couldn't see until I blew the pics up. Both the '44 IZZY PU and the TULA ex have the 4th picture shim in them
 

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The only known account of field treatment of new sniper rifles is from "Red Sniper on the Eastern Front" in which the top sniper in the defense of Leningrad was given the job of sighting in nearly 190 newly arrived sniper rifles (almost certainly 1943 PUs from Izhevsk, as Tula had been moved by then.) He was was able to do this in just a few days, so the rifles had to arrive pretty much ready to go with scopes mounted correctly, though Tula master gunsmiths were in the city and may have set them up prior to sighting-in. He probably had only to adjust the scopes properly from a secure bench rest, a task a very experienced PU shooter can usually do with about 4 shots or less after bore sighting a PU.
The Russian manual shows a technique for shimming or damping the barrel resonance which has been reproduced on this site, using thin oiled canvas or even oiled paper pads to adjust the barrel inside the handguard. Many members have claimed good luck with this technique, sometimes using other shim material. Pads are placed above or below tha barrel.
There are also Soviet trigger improvement methods, basically careful stoning and/or polishing of moving contact surfaces.
My 8 Tula ex-snipers don't have a fixed or peened pin on the trigger (I have dropped the pins many times) but several have the smooth "sniper trigger pull" though none have a very light trigger by Remington 700 standards!
My ex-snipers don't have a metal base or mounting plate in their stocks and I'm not sure that was common.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pix on the way

Of course, both cleaned put back together, I believe this will be worth taking them apart again that way comparisons can be made by more knowledgeable board members. I will go so far as to take down both Izzy PU and Tula ex I will also take down a front line refurb.and show pictures of what I think is relevant.
satlin, would you look at your trigger(s) and see of the sides have been machined surface grinder or a mill? This is not hand done, if it is this guy is way anal than I. The shooter knew the armorer something, lots of time in this trigger. LOTSI am going to tri pod the camera so you guys can see this, I think this is important to all of us with an ex or a PU. The mismatches may have them too.
It almost seemed like the Tula was going back to the line as a sniper and some one stepped in or the machinist wasn't told and did a lot of work. Maybe the shooter knew the armorer, always nice!! I gotta get better pix up, you'll see what i mean.
I see a 2 hours of work and at least 7or 8 operations.
Weld the hole
mill the sides
re drill the hole
ream it, had to be just to tight.
surface the trigger sides
grind the top to that fast angle
peen in both sides of pin. That is a 5 point peen. a machinist would have that not a grunt.
TO the cabinet the pawn shops to see if I can find more.

Does anyone know what or if there is a re barrel cartouche?
Better pix on the way

Shooter by trade. Patriot by birth
 

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Mantis,

I've seen the photos that you posted of the trigger on the '43 Tula. From the photos, I can't see the peened part that you're referring to, unless I'm just missing it. The milled marks on the trigger pin "ears" don't look out of place to me. I can't see from the pictures to say for sure, but it would not surprise me if the receiver was actually an Izhevsk receiver. It is VERY common to find Tula PU rifles from '43 and '44 that are built on Izhevsk receivers and that could account for the rough machining, as wartime Izhevsk receivers are known for their lack of metal finish. Tula only worked the parts of them that they felt necessary and built many snipers with them (I own at least two of them, myself).

As for the trigger, itself, there could be a lot of explanations for the way it is and we'll likely never know for sure. The most likely, is that it is, only by chance, a nice, clean/crisply functioning trigger, as it's a refurbed gun made from mixed parts. Once in a while the right parts come together to make something that actually works quite well. Often times not, however. You probably just got lucky. Also, keep in mind that there are several variations in triggers' shape, finish, etc. depending on when/where they were made (just like receivers).

For "accurizing", it's generally believed that these rifles would have been set up with shims, if they were needed, as well as the barrel wrapping, as described by SG, above. Typically, the barrels should be floating, but at the point where the front band is located around the stock/handguard, the barrel would likely have been wrapped with oiled canvas or felt. This keeps the barrel centered within the stock channel, as well as providing a harmonic dampener at a key point on the barrel. The shims under the tang or behind the recoil lug would serve to level the barrel/action in the stock. Also, they (especially the shims in the mag housing area) would give the action screws some extra bite to prevent them from bottoming out, assuring that there was enough tension to properly tighten the action in the stock. This is especially important on older stocks that have may have suffered from weather and compression and exactly why a lot of refurbed guns don't shoot as well as we would like, since their stocks are basically worn out, without shims. (ETA: I have seen many non-sniper stocks that had shims, too. So, it was not only limited to sniper rifles)

Before you do anything (spare smoothing up the triggers, if you feel it's needed), I would shoot them with at least a few different types of ammo and see how they group. They may need work in certain areas, or may shoot great from the start. If they don't, the groups will likely tell you what's going on, as well as a few key observations on how the action and barrel are seating in the stock and barrel channel.

Best of luck,

John
 

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Mantis,

. . . I can't see from the pictures to say for sure, but it would not surprise me if the receiver was actually an Izhevsk receiver. It is VERY common to find Tula PU rifles from '43 and '44 that are built on Izhevsk receivers and that could account for the rough machining, as wartime Izhevsk receivers are known for their lack of metal finish. Tula only worked the parts of them that they felt necessary and built many snipers with them (I own at least two of them, myself).

As for the trigger, itself, there could be a lot of explanations for the way it is and we'll likely never know for sure. The most likely, is that it is, only by chance, a nice, clean/crisply functioning trigger, as it's a refurbed gun made from mixed parts. Once in a while the right parts come together to make something that actually works quite well. Often times not, however. You probably just got lucky. Also, keep in mind that there are several variations in triggers' shape, finish, etc. depending on when/where they were made (just like receivers).

. . . Also, they (especially the shims in the mag housing area) would give the action screws some extra bite to prevent them from bottoming out, assuring that there was enough tension to properly tighten the action in the stock. This is especially important on older stocks that have may have suffered from weather and compression and exactly why a lot of refurbed guns don't shoot as well as we would like, since their stocks are basically worn out, without shims. (ETA: I have seen many non-sniper stocks that had shims, too. So, it was not only limited to sniper rifles)
It indeed seems that a lot of midwar Tula pu snipers were built on Izhevsk receivers-kinda strange. I have a '43 Tula sniper-marked but never drilled that's built on one.

A worn-out stock could, indeed, cause a need for shimming in order to seat the receiver properly. However, I think it was sometimes used for other reasons. I have a couple of 1943 Izhevsk ex-pu's which are both in "new" postwar refurb stocks, and both of which have brass shims under their tangs.
 
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