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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you google the name Becker, it comes up as English, German, Hungarian. The name "Ungarische" means Hungarian. Anyone know what the Coat of Arms/Family Crest is ? Could also be a military insignia.

All this is inside a holster for a Hungariam 29M, but the holster is for a Hungarian 37M according to my reference books

Any ideas

Don
 

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If you google the name Becker, it comes up as English, German, Hungarian. The name "Ungarische" means Hungarian. Anyone know what the Coat of Arms/Family Crest is ? Could also be a military insignia.

All this is inside a holster for a Hungariam 29M, but the holster is for a Hungarian 37M according to my reference books

Any ideas

Don
Leutnant Otto Von Becker seems to have been an officer serving in occupied Nazi-occupied Hungary, hence the use of a Hungarian pistol.

With a name like that, and writing in German, and with a German military rank, he was probably neither English or Hungarian.

I have found no connection between the German name of Becker and Hungary. The name Becker is derived from German - becker, the same as backer, a baker. Or it may be from becher, a cup or goblet, from bechern, to tipple; "der Becher" (German), drinker, a tippler; the same in Dutch.

The Hungarian equivalent to the name Becher is Pék, clearly derived from a similar root-noun.

The English connection with the name Becker is even more tenuous - quote - 'A derivative of the Old English "becca" meaning mattock - used to denote a maker or user of mattocks, digging tools with a flat blade set at right angles to the handle.'

Old English has not been spoken here in England since the end of the 11th century. It was the language of the English between the end of the seventh century and the years following the last successful invasion in 1066.

Is any of this any use to you?

tac
 

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The German says "Ammunition: Only for Pistol 29 M (Hung[arian]) Cal[iber] 9m/m K. #4856, Lieutenant Otto von Becker Hungarian [illegible - maybe Nc]ll."

The symbol in the shield is the symbol of the fascist Hungarian Arrow Cross Party (Nyilaskeresztes Párt). This party was in power in Hungary from October 1944 until about January 1945.

I would assume that Becker was a German officer assigned to Hungary during this period who for some reason felt the need to make sure no one messed with the ammo for his Hungarian pistol.
 

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The German says "Ammunition: Only for Pistol 29 M (Hung[arian]) Cal[iber] 9m/m K. #4856, Lieutenant Otto von Becker Hungarian [illegible - maybe Nc]ll."
QUOTE]

I believe the last set of characters or "Nr.II" Maybe a reference to the 2nd Hungarian regiment or division? Perhaps he was a German advisor or liaison assigned to a Hungarion unit.
 

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The German says "Ammunition: Only for Pistol 29 M (Hung[arian]) Cal[iber] 9m/m K. #4856, Lieutenant Otto von Becker Hungarian [illegible - maybe Nc]ll."
QUOTE]

I believe the last set of characters or "Nr.II" Maybe a reference to the 2nd Hungarian regiment or division? Perhaps he was a German advisor or liaison assigned to a Hungarion unit.
I think you are right. The shield with the arrow cross and two crowns was the divisional insignia for the 25. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS "Hunyadi" (ungarische Nr. 2) according to _Europäische Freiwillige im Bild_, which also shows a shield with the arrow cross and three crowns for the 26. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS "Hungaria" (ungarische Nr. 3). Most of the on-line info I find labels these as No. 1 (25th) and No.2 (26th) respectively, rather then as No. 2 (25th) and No. 3 (26). I am not sure why that is but this item would seem to indicate that this Leutnant Otto von Becker was associated with the one whose divisional insignia had two crowns (25. WGD der SS) and that this was "Ungarische Nr. 2." Note also the big number 25 next to the shield.

I guess it is no surprise that Wikipedia is wrong but a book put together by Waffen SS veterans is right.
 

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That is good information. This is cool stuff. I'd love to have that holster. What would be even better is if the holster came with the gun with the serial number matching the inscription.
 

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It is very unusual to find an Heer Lt in a W-SS division, but by that late stage of the war it is entirely possible. Better than the holster & pistol, I'd like to see his Soldbuch!
Sarge
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
You guys are good

After your leads, I got about 3 hits for this unit & they even showed the unit insignia. Don't know if they had the units wrong or the insignias wrong. They listed Nr 1 as having 2 crowns, Nr 2 having 3 crowns. Nr 1 was founded on 02 Nov 1944 in Hungary & I think it said the unit was wiped out later. Nr 2 was formed later.

I agree the 25 was the unit. Person who has the holster said it was for the # of cartridges in the 3 mag's + one in the chamber. If I pick this up, I'll post some pictures. I also know I'll be paying too much, but I've never seen another rig like this.

Again, thanks for all the information

Also, is there any site that may list German military rosters/names in WWII if you know the unit. I tried Otto Von Becker on google but nothing came up.



Don
 

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I suspect that the sources that refer to the 25th WGD der SS as Hungarian No.1 and the 26th as No. 2 are incorrect. My guess is that the 25th was called Hungarian No. 2 because there was already an SS division primarily composed of Hungarian nationals: 22. SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division Maria Theresa. This division was composed mostly of Volksdeutsche, unlike 25. and 26. Divisions, which were composed of ethnic Hungarians. Still, they had been transferred from the Hungarian military and they were Hungarian nationals, so it would make sense that when they raised other divisions of Hungarian nationals they would refer to them as number two and number three.

This is also consistent with what is written on this holster - which has the unit insignia of 25. SS as well as the number 25, but which has handwritten ungarische Nr. II.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well friends, it's gone

After reseaching the holster & unit as much as I could, I talked myself into paying his price, which I thought was high. It would have filled an empty spot in my collection. Went back to the auction & it had closed. emailed the seller about closing the auction & he took it to Tulsa gun show & sold it.

darwin

yes, the holster was serial numbered to the pistol. Another reason I wanted it. You can see it on Gunbroker #82536438 & it's a closed auction now.

The holster had the Hungarian Arrow Cross Party insignia for the 25th Waffen-Grenadier SS Division, Hungarian Nr 2. There was also a 26th Division which has 3 crowns in its insignia.

Don
 

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What is the Hungarian M-29 pistol? I know the M-37, but was this a Frommer Stop model?

The officer may have written that in the holster flap in case an orderly or armorer loaded his gun. Peter Neumann mentioned that his orderly (?) loaded his MP-40 in Russia, with "explosive" bullets. He was a SS officer. Can't recall the title of his book, alas. "The Black March"?

Lone Star
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The Hungarian 29M (1929) was manufactured between 1929 - 1937. The model 37 was an improved version.

Don
 
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