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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
What is the porpose of staked screws?






Topic author: Fatstrat
Subject: What is the porpose of staked screws?
Posted on: 01/02/2004 5:54:29 PM
Message:
As long as I've been interested in Arisaka's, I don't think I've ever seen the answer to this question. I can't imagine why the Japanese didn't want the soldier to ever completely clean his rifle. Plus, nowadays, every time I obtain a rifle, Arisaka or not, I am reluctant to break the action screws loose out of habit. Even tho I know of no other rifles that had staked screws. Which begs the question, why did they do it?

Replies:

Reply author: Don Blosser
Replied on: 01/02/2004 6:52:14 PM
Message:
Staking is there to keep the screws from rattling loose. The upset of the metal is enough to cause interference and keep them in place but not enough to prevent tear down if necessary. If the idea had been to absolutely keep people from monkeying with things they had not business with they would have used special headed screws that required a special driver.

Reply author: rcb
Replied on: 01/02/2004 9:12:28 PM
Message:
It appears to me that the T99 was not ment to be field stripped in the field. I have taken apart one or two staked rifles in the past and found them to be full of cosmoline. Is it reasonable to beleive that they did not intend for the soldier to take his rifle apart hence all the grease. It has done a good job of protecting the metal all these 60 something years. rcb.


Reply author: Fatstrat
Replied on: 01/02/2004 9:25:41 PM
Message:
Not only that, but the ones (staked screws) I've removed were HELL to get loose. And that was in at a workbench with a vise and all kinds of tools. I can't soldiers in the field being expected to do this.


Reply author: Earl
Replied on: 01/02/2004 9:28:41 PM
Message:
That is correct - the individual soldier was not meant to fully break the action down 4 cleaning as it is abolutely unneccesary. Those drain holes are in the stocks for a reason - to drain any water that should get in there. The same is true with the cuttout on the right side on Type 38s.


As mentioned, they were pretty well greased in the stocks. No individual soldier would ever be able to remove staked screws without some sort of tool. The only thing I've found that works (only done it a few times in my stupid younger days) is an impact driver.

Even though other millsurps had screws that were not peened in place, you can bet that fully dissassembling the action would have been intenselly frowned upon as well. Most military men conscripts don't know squat about weapons. The last thing you want is them to fully dissemble them then loose parts or not be able to put them back and have to take it to the armorer. Full dissassembly was/is and allways will be the role of the armorer - not the individual soldier.

Also note I said intensely frowned upon. That is in a Western military. In the Imperial Japanese military an NCO would most likely have quite literally beaten you for doing something so stupid.

Earl

Reply author: Michael Jon Littman
Replied on: 01/02/2004 11:12:49 PM
Message:



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]quote: Originally posted by Earl

That is correct - the individual soldier was not meant to fully break the action down 4 cleaning as it is abolutely unneccesary. Those drain holes are in the stocks for a reason - to drain any water that should get in there. The same is true with the cuttout on the right side on Type 38s.

As mentioned, they were pretty well greased in the stocks. No individual soldier would ever be able to remove staked screws without some sort of tool. The only thing I've found that works (only done it a few times in my stupid younger days) is an impact driver.

Even though other millsurps had screws that were not peened in place, you can bet that fully dissassembling the action would have been intenselly frowned upon as well. Most military men conscripts don't know squat about weapons. The last thing you want is them to fully dissemble them then loose parts or not be able to put them back and have to take it to the armorer. Full dissassembly was/is and allways will be the role of the armorer - not the individual soldier.

Also note I said intensely frowned upon. That is in a Western military. In the Imperial Japanese military an NCO would most likely have quite literally beaten you for doing something so stupid.

Earl

Earl,
Excellent answer! I would add, as well, that the German Gew 98 has "set screws" to keep the large action screws in place and at a constant torque. The set screws and action screws were made to match each other and were indeed numbered to the particular rifle. In effect this keeps the critical action screws in place and prevents them from backing out during transportation and use. The Japanese use of the stake tool may have taken this same concept to another level by staking all the screws in place to prevent them from walking out AND to insure only authorized persons gained access beyond the staked points.

Reply author: BradB
Replied on: 01/03/2004 12:27:50 AM
Message:
My guess is that the reason the screw steel is actually somewhat soft is also to frustrate removal by anyone except an armorer. If ever removed, the armorer would then replace the screws with new ones and stake them in place? I have had a rifle with two sets of peens; one functional and one not lined up with anything.

Reply author: mrnambu
Replied on: 01/05/2004 7:09:33 PM
Message:
Hey Brian,Missed you in Tulsa. Lost your email address. I have some cheap ammo and a sling for you. Hope to see you in April .Mac
Don B. in Kansas is right. Staking da sukrews was for keepin dem tite. If they didn't want em taken out they woulduv used a special head on em or "rocktite"
mrnambu (in the Panhandle)


Reply author: vis35
Replied on: 01/06/2004 12:05:39 AM
Message:
I had to dig my Swedish AG-42b out of the safe, they staked in the guard screws in a rather interesting way. The screws have two notches milled into the heads; a thin cup shaped liner is placed into the recess in the guard for the screw head. This liner is staked into the notch in the screw head to lock it in to place. I guess the liner would be replaceable if it was used too many times. I think that the Egyptian Hakim (which is a copy of the AG-42b anyhow) used the same system.
Regards from Alaska,
Jeff



Reply author: Stan Zielinski
Replied on: 01/06/2004 3:02:37 PM
Message:
I have noted several instances where the large circular nuts on the Model 99 recoil lug were staked in place. Since removal of the recoil lug would certainly (?) not be something the average soldier would be allowed to do, this would seem to further substantiate the notion that the main purpose of staking was to prevent the loosening of the screw.


But in replacing several screws that had been staked I noticed that when the screws were properly tightened the slot was aligned with the stake punch, so a secondary purpose may have been to insure the screws were properly tightened if they were removed and then replaced.




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