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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A worst case scenario is an armed perp in your face and an armed perp at your back with a third perp on lookout/backup 30 feet away.

You may all think this is a tad extreme but back when I qualified for my CCW shooting test, I had to pass a somewhat similar qualifier, and tho I never put the question to any of the instructors (LEOs), in general, they advised carrying a CCW handgun that fit comfortably and shot well for you.

I'm looking for CCW handgun advice here (assume proper ammo) - what pistol or revolver gives the best chance at survival in a very difficult close-quarters situation? I like the S&W M29 a lot but due to size/weight/slow draw, it is likely not a good choice. I would prefer not to hear 'the handgun you shoot best' but need to hear 'the handgun that does it best.'

For example, the popular media for many years touted the power of the 32 ACP PPK in the hands of fictional hero James Bond...nobody does it better...I now have my doubts.

I realize this may be a subjective question but am looking for honest comments and opinions.

Thank you for your time.
 

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James Bond shows what an expert can do with a .32, its not the gun, its the one pulling the trigger that needs to be the best. My "leveled at your heart" .22 automatic will easily beat your half drawn Colt Commander .45.
 

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What you shoot best is of course the answer, mine is the Makarov BUT in the vein asked. There was actually a discussion very similar to this not long ago at the range. And being like any range you got a bazillion opinions. Mostly based upon personal choices. But, when we got past that there was a bit of discussion and what we came up with was.

A Colt 1911 .45 acp based pistol. The concensus was that of all handguns everyone had shot that design was the most user friendly and easy to shoot under stressful conditions. More people there, and those they knew chould shoot the 1911 design well, better than any other single design. The .45acp was chosen because everyone believed bigger is better, but all agreed that a well designed modern bullet in 9MM or .40 S&W came close seconds.

This is actually the setup that I am considering buying next for myself, in a Colt Commander sized pistol.

A double action revolver in .357 was second (it was actually my first choice in SP101 one of my favorite choices today), but was over ruled by the 1911 for one reason only. Shooting double action for most people tends to pull shots, not all of course, but many of those in the conversation mentioned that. I am not sure I agree completely, but can not argue too strongly with the choice of the 1911 edging it out.

Of course others opinion will vary.
 

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Three on one? One behind you, one at 10 yards? All armed, and have the initiative? Best case is probably you get the one in front of you, and a fast spin MAYBE gets you missed by the one behind and you get him. If the back=up at 30 feet is any kind of shot and actually willing to shoot you - then you get shot. Dave Dake's fictional killer Joachim Steuben (maybe Adele Mundy's "servant" Tovera) might get all three, but not normal people.

For the gun - it doesn't matter much as long as it is concealed, you can get at it without them realizing what you are about, and you are handy with it. i like a 1911 in .45, but it ain't all that easy to both conceal AND get at quickly.
 

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The 1911 Commander in 45ACP is an effective "natural pointer" for most experienced shooters. I own several and do sometimes use one for cc but I am a big guy and with a loose shirt I can get away with it. However, another gun designed by J. Browning has not been mentioned and is also a natural pointer that is more easily concealed and carries more rounds. The Hi Power. My favorite all around cc weapon in an inside the waistband holster. Mine is in 9mm Luger but they are available in .40 caliber as well.
 

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I have a FN Hi-Power, with a holster easy to get to. With any weapon, going to be hard with 3 targets though.
 

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TV and Movie guys do it all the time...but the fact is, you CAN NOT out draw a gun pointed at you! Chances that you can out shoot three guns pointed at you even IF you have your hand on your gun?

About ZIP!
 

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Come on, get past the exact scenario. It may have been poorly worded and highly unwinable. But he is still asking a valid question. Remember the old adage there is no stupid question, only stupid answers.

The man is asking what pistol or revolver would give one the best chance when confronted with multiple opponents and asking why the firearm mentioned might be a good choice.

That is the way I read it and the way I answered, which I considered more valuable to him and others than simple dismisal of the entire post.
 

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With my luck, in a stressful situation, I'd forget to hit the safety or fumble with the tiny one on the Hi-pwer.

Unless I practice, a lot w/1911 or HP, I'd have vote for a Glock 19/23 for it's size and ease of use. I wish Glock would make a .45/10mm the size of a G19/23, I'd be happy. :)
 

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I carry a Glock model 30 .45 caliber. It is compact and I use a CrossBreed Supertuck holster at 4o'clock. This set up is pretty fast for me. The .45 bullet is a proven man stopper and with 10+1 the glock has plenty of ammo to take on three bad guys. I also like the Glock because there is no external safety to slow me down, it's just draw, squeeze trigger and bang. It took me a lot of trial and error to come up with this combo. You will find some good answers here but you will have to handle a lot of guns and holsters until you find what you are really comfortable with. I also carry a .327 Federal Magnum 6 shot revolver at my 8o'clock position as a BUG in case the bad guys are watching my right hand but my left is out of view.
 

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Firstcavapache, that sounds like an excellent combination, but I'd reconsider going to places where you felt it necessary to carry two guns and avoid them if possible. Of course, there are times when I also carry two guns, because going into a bad area is unavoidable sometimes. I guess I'm backwards from most people though in that I consider my Smith & Wesson J frame .38 to be my primary, and the high capacity Sig 9mm in the small of my back to be my back up piece. It's because I can get to the little .38 without looking like I'm reaching for a gun and get it out quicker and with less effort. That said, I like the sigs or the glocks because they don't have external, manual safeties to deal with and both have the reputation of going bang when they are supposed to. I am, however, planning on taking a closer look at a Ruger SR-9 when I have the chance, they look interesting.
 

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With my luck, in a stressful situation, I'd forget to hit the safety or fumble with the tiny one on the Hi-pwer.
There is always that problem. All one can do is to try to remain calm and steady. (Which is also needed to be accurate.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Was waylaid one night by five (5) armed perps. I fought and prevailed.

Was younger then, and lightning fast, and today am old with a wretched back, and precious little speed. So should misfortune come my way again, I would greatly appreciate some help here in selecting the best close-quarters CCW handgun you can think of, cuz I would like to hang in for another 10 or 20 or 30 years, God willing.

Thanks to all for your comments & opinions thus far.....keep'em comin.
 

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One thing you might wish to consider as we are all getting older, having hit 51 this year myself. As another poster mentioned, you are highly unlikely to outdraw someone. Therefore if you absolutely have to fight for your life, meaning they wont just take your money and leave you be, you might be wise to have an alternative weapon in hand, a walking stick. At close quarters with a bit of training such as Irish Stick Fighting, they can be devastating weapons. If nothing else they may buy you room to get to, or draw, a firearm.

I have for a number of years, since knee surgery started it, carried an Irish Blackthorn walking stick. I have several originals, and now carry one of the synthetic Cold Steel versions also. If nothing else it gives one more layer of self defense.
 

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IMO, there is no "Best CCW Tactical Surprise" weapon - other than one that is (a) on yuou (b) concealed so the bad guys don't know you have it (c) easily gotten out and into action.

Few of us are Ed McGivern or Bill Jordan quick, so just out-drawing the bad guys isn't usually an option (especially if they are already displaying arms.

I try to avoid places where I am lilkely to encounter bad guys. Problem is - there are places where "not likely to encounter bad guys" turn out to be just where they turn up anyhow - or where you have to go. Hospital parking garages, for example. I ahve been known to, quite illegally, carry when I was going to have to park in a hospital parking garage and then go into the hospital. Tokarev or Remington 51 (thinest, flattest guns I've got and the Remington the most naturally pointing thing imaginable) went into a back poket in a pocker holster, under (cool weather) loose-fitting parka. IF the bad guys had demanded money or whatever, I'd have put on a scared old guy act (act? I'd have BEEN a scared old guy), said "Let me get my wallet, there isn't much in it, but let me get it" - and come out with the gun and started shooting. The surprsde would be they expected a wallet and got a gun, which ought to be enough to get at least one of them. Whether it would be enough, dunno, but it would be the chance I would have. But I'd rather not have that happen, and i wouldn't really expect to beat three armed assailants.
 

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"Was waylaid one night by five (5) armed perps. I fought and prevailed."

Don't much believe in luck, but that was very lucky, can't reasonably attribute it to anything else. They must have set on you because you looked like you would be an easy victim. You have to look like anything but a victim to not get attacked. The criminals don't want to have to work for their living, that's why they are criminals. You must practice your situational awareness and how not to look like a victim. I'll continue to carry the 5 shot revolver for the reasons I mentioned above, but both of your scenarios, the real and the imagined are making me reconsider only carrying the revolver.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Clyde - I was not talking about fast-draw speed, rather close-quarters fighting speed. In fact when I finally went for my piece, I had some difficulty getting it out of my back pocket, and it took a couple of tries (seemed like f-o-r-e-v-e-r). Even so, Steven Segal might have been impressed.

Elmer J - Luck...hey, I'll take Lady Luck every time, was blithely walking along and quite accidently (totally unawares) happened onto a robbery/beating scene and went into good Samaritan mode...and as soon as the perps turned their attention to me...the victim dissapeared, to this day I do not know how he got out of there so fast... I found him later hiding behind a car and all he said to me was "I thought you were dead" well yah-uh, so did I...and that's all he said, and all I wanted to hear was 'thank you.'

Have always felt there was an Angel on my shoulder.
 

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We all know most armed encounters, as civilian CCW holders, are going to be close, quick and dirty.

Some people have to get out of "offensive" mode, on the street as civilians we are not police officers or soldiers, fighting off 10 bad guys like the Punisher.

My vote as to the original question, for me would be the 3" GP100 I carry loaded with .357 hollowpoints. I probably would at the very least, get shot AT and would likely be hit by the guy behind me, but the guy to my front would at least catch a slug to the chest. Your only hope would be the guy behind you was totally surprised by the shot to the first guy, as you played the "scared victim" role and it bought you a split second to turn around and shoot him, and then beat feet and find cover so the "lookout" can't get a shot at you.

I don't worry much about "pulling shots" with my DA revolver, it's not bullseye shooting and the odds of taking an aimed shot at any distance are extremely low. This is fighting with a gun, which is why I carry a fix sight revolver.Why have something that may snag that isn't gonna get used anyway? You pretty most likely won't even get a chance to use those sights, it's gonna be a scenario of get the gun pointed toward the attacker from the beltline and jerk that trigger as fast as your body will allow. That's why I choose a wheelgun, no safety, just get that trigger pulled. No slide to catch on stuff if you gotta shoot with the gun against your body.

Most shooters who have been involved in home defense or CC shootings, as well as police officers, when interviewed later after the shooting, most report they don't remember seeing or using their sights and those that even recall seeing their own gun just remember seeing in their peripheral vision. Even those with the whizz-bang hi-speed Hi-Viz or night sights report just seeing the faint light from the sights as they just pointed and shot.

Practice instinctive and point shooting, it's what's gonna save you. Back before I joined the Army (getting out soon!) I shot a lot of handgun, and was able to get my skill with both the 67-1 S&W and my CZ-85 up to the point where I could get the vast majority of my shots center mass on a silhouette at 25 yards. It took thousands of rounds to get to that level, where I would practice drawing my gun and shooting from either the hip or a "low ready" position to score hits at 25 yards. It seems easy to most "non gun people" but under stress it is not.

I don't see myself as a "gunfighter" and I am not an expert by any means, I just love to shoot and I trained as best as I could. I shoot at a very small private range near my home, so as not to look like a wierdo I would even set up targets, then sprint to the clubhouse of the range 300 yards away, sprint back and then draw my gun and shoot, to simulate "fight or flight" repsonse, i.e. shaky hands, slowed reflexes etc. More sweat in training less blood in combat!
 

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I'll post another vote for the Glock. For me personally the G26 is a great combo of size/concealability, capacity, controllability, consistency, reliability and adequacy of round. But I wouldn't argue with any model, Glock or otherwise, someone thought they could carry concealed and accessible.
 
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